Once you’ve landed the tags, the Runner can ignore Data Raven and Gutenberg and (if played incorrectly or drawn out of order) Information Overload. The last thing you want is them making glory runs on centrals to score out before you secure the kill, or even worse them running through and trashing your kill pieces. This new ice is both cheaper and has more subs than Wraparound, so it’s great for putting behind your IO gear check.
This deck needs immolation script and NRE, stat!!
If you change Wrap to [newice] you’re losing early access - you may more likely lose 5 points before you tag the runner.
Also - Keyhole.
There are 3 pieces of ice, 2 of them very cheap to res that make it perfectly possible to give the runner a tag for that run at least. It helps with setting up the midseasons in the first place if you can res a gutenberg for 2 then newice for 1 and have them either break a st 6 sentry, beat a trace of 7 or break an unclickable eli and then clear a tag.
I moved 28 posts to a new topic: Data & Destiny Spoilers
@SneakySly - can we splinter these posts off into a new thread for Data & Destiny?
Though they were quasi-confirmed earlier, I’d thought. Either way, I’ll be happy. If they’re more distinct and interesting, great (though the Advertisement one, with support/modulation, actually seems like it could be fun with Product Placement and Bioroids and suchlike). If they’re the ones we’ve seen, well, could be really cool with the right support.
Back onto SanSan Cycle and the NBN barrier, I dunno if NEH Butchershop wants it all that badly, even if it does turn on after the tagging ice turns off. Wraparound has just been so useful up until Corroder dropping. Maybe 2 and 2?
More seriously, as weird as it sounds: how many ice that receive a direct and significant boost from Sub-Boost do you think a deck needs before it’s worth running 1-2 copies of it, assuming that deck isn’t running those ice solely for Sub-Boost inclusion?
Asking because Bandwidth, Troll, this new Ice, Architect (if they have Mimic), and Drac0 all seem like they benefit fairly heavily.
Bandwidth becomes potentially easier to break but also more necessary (even then, as more than a one-of it seems unlikely to be run) and also gets to remain useful when the ice behind it gets parasited.
Troll may be a sentry, but it has no subs at all. It’s only a 2c tax to Corroder and a 1 counter tax to Lady, but hey, now it’s something they need to be breaking (although it gains a weakness to Cutlery then, I think?) in addition to dealing with the Trace.
The new ice gains a sub that remains even when they don’t have tags, making rezzing it early on much easier/less painful.
Architect becomes easier to break unless they have Mimic already out (even then, Lady takes 2 counters, Mimic’s price goes to 3, and Corroder actually takes 4 anyway due to the extra subs, it’s only worse if they’re using Femme for sentry-breaking purposes, and even then it ought to tie), but it adds hard tax and makes running through even more impossible. Also, can’t be two-for-one’d there. (Have read a horror story on 4chan about someone whose opponent was able to set up a triple Patch’d and Sub-Boosted Architect and just ground their deck out with an untrashable 5-sub 9-strength sentry/barrier when they had no Femme and there was something else in front to prevent Inside Job.)
Drac0 was brought up back when Sub-Boost was first spoiled. You can pump the initial strength much more heavily and drop a Sub-Boost to support the trace and make it a real problem to deal with again so long as your economy is strong. Even if just to 5, a 5 strength, 6 cost (plus one click/card) Barrier/Sentry with two subs (one of which is minor, but potentially taxing) is much rougher to deal with repeatedly than it is with just the trace2 draining cash.
Would be strangely MORE relevant if more people played Quetzal. She seems legitimately quite strong right now, but just doesn’t get used with all the other Anarch Hotness going around. Qimpossible kinda hates gaining another Barrier to deal with, and the extra sub adds a bit of tax anyway. Or if Femme was in everything again, could see it just to increase Femme tax.
Don’t think Sub-Boost has hit peak usefulness yet, and I think the Opportunity Cost even in the (probably MN from the look of the above) is probably too great to be worth it anyway, but was neat to realize how many cards there are now that legitimately could be run and could be much more threatening with Sub-Boost around.
(Data Raven and Gutenberg not counted because the higher strength sentries tend to be difficult enough to handle anyway, but I suppose there may exist strange situations where it wouldn’t be a totally bad idea.)
Though seeing how hard the opportunity costs are for including them, really do with Patch and Sub-Boost did more. Either stacking them both in one card, letting Sub-Boost add different subs based on which typing gets added (possibly costing more in some cases), letting Patch remove hosted cards/counters (optional, mostly trying to close out Femme) or gain something like “unbypassable” or just changing the card’s ice type entirely (without the strength boost and probably with more cost, given the potential power there). I dunno. Just seems like there was so much design space there and the power level we got, even if good in a vaccuum, isn’t as strong as just “add more ice” which is sad.
Should split off into a Data & Destiny thread.
Done! Thanks for giving me the heads up.
As kind of a meta consideration for this thread in general, have people liked discussing the entire SanSan cycle in one huge thread, or would it be better for each data pack to have it’s own thread?
It has it’s ups and downs. Usually the feed starts vaguely from the spoiler leaks, so if spoiler-ken (or someone else) says “NBN’s getting a new 5/3” or such, which thread should that go in?
Also, is their really enough discussion going for 3 or so threads? The end thread length is long, but that’s more because it’s a long running topic.
Major benefit of the split would be being able to follow specific discussions - but since those often branch across data packs, I’m not sure if the end result is more effective.
I’d say one thread is good.
(Making sure I’m in the right thread this time…)
One thread is fine. Cycles are designed as one. Example: It would be weird to talk about cybernetics division without the current they’re getting in the Underway, and spoilers don’t always come attached to a box. Multiple are awkward.
Yeah, there are big awkwardnesses with things like Grail ICE, the “Home Invasion Suite” of Icebreakers, etc.
I’d say one thread per cycle/big box makes the most sense.
I think we could take it a step further and have all spoilers in one thread
B&E (BnE) breaking and entering for you non felons
Home Invasion Suite?
Crowbar, et al.
The thug suite.
Thug is more about violence/intimidation, not so much burglary.
Shiv isn’t exactly a burglar tool either.