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SHL3 Setup


#1

Eventually (hopefully) we will have another Stimhack League. I’m making this thread as a place to discuss changes to the setup compared to SHL2.

  1. A different ranking system would be ideal; Elo is pretty brutal. What are our options?
  2. @Argamas proposed making the league only for people on this forum.

So yeah


OFFICIAL Stimhack OCTGN League PART II
Rankade ranking system and new feature: ghosts!
#2

1: Challenge board is open source. If someone codes up something else, that could help. I agree that ELO is brutal and really unfair.
2: is it not already that way? Surely people, on seeing the league, will just have to get a stimhack account and a challengeboards one - is it our aim to drive people towards this site?


#3

Trying to resolve an issue with a match when there’s no way to contact your opponent sucks. And yeah, let’s bring people to this site.


#4

In before @PeekaySK to say what he would say: glicko would be a better rating system than Elo :).


#5

Regarding the second point, not all people are on stimhack. The challenge board site has no PM option, only the discussion tab. That makes communication al lot harder. All issues with people on the stimhack forums were resolved. All other issues went without communication and we had to rely on gut feeling and the little info we had.

Regarding ELO, I found this: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/98469/elo-generator seems very rough


#6

If everything was possible, I’d be really nice to have a seperate runner and corp elo (maybe hidden, maybe public) and have the scoring rating be an average of that. Within one go, you eliminate the annoying effects the corp-runner imbalance gives.

You could no longer get a small advantage by playing the “stronger” side as the second game of the match
You could no longer get an advantage by playing one side more than the other, you’d just be setting that elo more accurately.

I’m aware that this is easier said then done, but a man can dream!


#7

It would be! The big question is how to actually run the league using something other than Elo. People have mentioned that challengeboards is open source, but that means that someone would actually need to do some work. I believe @PeekaySK has mentioned that he has used something other than challengeboards in the past? I hope we can figure something out because Elo is soooooo brutal.


#8

Glicko has a deviation parameter that represents the uncertainty in a player’s current rating. I use it in my OCTGN analysis. Since we’ll be getting a new OCTGN dump with SHL2 data, I can even rate the SHL2 players using Glicko and we can see how the final ratings and deviations compare to Challengeboards’ ELO.


#9

Fair enough, good reason to bring them in, then!


#10

It would be very nice :).


#11

Bet you’ll be in top spot for SHL2 when the glicko rankings come out :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

Can we allow games to be played on Jinteki.net by agreement?


#13

It would be a good idea to start SHL3 with player rankings carryover from SHL2 as well, I’d imagine.


#14

I’ve noticed that a lot of people joined the board during the first league, pretty sure something similar happened with the second. I can understand not wanting random octgn lurkers, but it is free advertising.


#15

I agree, what I meant was: you can join the league, but a profile on the forum is mandatory. Nobody will be blocked to join.

This is hard to realise on challenge boards, unless you made it a closed league


#16

Really enjoyed the league. Can’t wait for SHL3 :smile:


#17

Was a fun league. Shout outs to 54% win rate and below 1500.

I liked the excuse to play games 1 step more serious on OCTGN, but if i cared about my rating a league this long I would not have played that many games.

Hopefully for a rating system adjustment, or i’ll just use it again to play more serious games and not care about my results… which kills me, since i am competitive in mindset, and not gaming the system for rating took willpower ~_~


#18

Elo would be ok, but the K-factor is way too high. A k-factor of 15 or so would work much better.


#19

I love the idea of separate corp and runner rates, I think that’d be even more beneficial than moving away from Elo or reducing K-factor.

I know that you guys are putting in a lot of work, and if it’s too much to make big changes then I totally understand!


#20

My work here is done.

Yeah, we have a Ruby-powered glicko-2 implementation for our local league. Give me a week and I’ll talk to my guy to see if we could do some tweaks to it and have it run SHL3.