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"That's not a virtual resource" - The Apex Thread


Yea, it face down is not a program, but yea if you’re using it for herazade thats…fineish. I think you need to still get value from the harby. I like chopbot in as a 3x in my apex decks, that could work with brahman quite well…if you’re bouncing useful programs to your deck anyway, while sustaining enough draw to feed the bot/hunger.


Right. I was advocating using Harby more for the free installs and bounces rather than as food for most of your abilities.

Harby + Cache seems good for Chop. Harby + Paricia seems good for Brahmin.


Ive been thinking CBI raid might have a place in APEX for the Apoc turns so you dont get nuked down after you destroy the world


I think you are better off just running hoppers and I’ve Had Worse.

Or just don’t Apoc against scorch decks. Most of them can’t score out anyway.


So with the newly spoiled cards, I’ve updated my somewhat successful Apex deck. The shaper event Out of the Ashes replaces the Hyperdrivers, which I think makes much more sense and doesn’t require juggling MU with Endless Hunger.

I’m still not sure if I should have another Turning Wheel, might drop a Scandal for another just to get some more reliable form of multiaccess.

Apex Scandal v3

Apex: Invasive Predator (Data and Destiny)

Event (31)
3x Apocalypse (Data and Destiny)
3x Blackmail (Fear and Loathing)
3x Corporate Scandal (Business First) [color=#708090]•••[/color]
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
6x Exclusive Party (Salsette Island) [color=#4169E1]••••• •[/color]
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]•••[/color]
3x Making an Entrance (Salsette Island) [color=#FF4500]••••• •[/color]
3x Out of the Ashes (The Liberated Mind) [color=#32CD32]••••• •[/color]
3x Prey (Data and Destiny)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
3x Heartbeat (Data and Destiny)
3x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)

Resource (2)
1x Hunting Grounds (Data and Destiny)
1x The Turning Wheel (The Liberated Mind) [color=#708090]•[/color]

Icebreaker (3)
3x Endless Hunger (Data and Destiny)

Program (3)
3x Harbinger (Data and Destiny)
25 influence spent (max 25)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Liberated Mind

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


Like the deck. A couple of questions…

Why Sports Hopper x3? I would rather have Hunting Grounds x3 as it is cheaper to install, helps me get past problem Ice (Troll, Data Raven, Tollbooth, Pop-up, etc.) and with Heartbeat serves the same purpose.

I would add Chop Bot 3000 x2 in this deck. This allows me to install my first 2 Exclusive Parties with Apex’s card ability and then use them for Endless Hunger, Heartbeat, or Card Draw or Tag removal from Chop Bot Then any EPs after that are draw and credits. Making an entrance is cool tech for sure, but Chop Bot x2 and E3 x1 (for those decks packing Spiderweb and/or Hive, not to mention Bioroids) provide more flex.

I had the same though for Making an Entrance replacing Hyperdriver x2 I was packing in my version of Apex.

My two credits.


I’ve tried Chobot variants along with E3 and I’ve have always found them to be without exception too slow. There comes a point when a Corp can hardlock out Apex from getting in if you don’t reset the board with an Apoc.

Sports Hopper allows me to immediately draw the pieces I need with Making an Entrance and I can also pop it right before the Apoc for the after-reset follow up. Apex really is nothing without the Apoc or Blackmail threat being present.


I Apocalypse early and often. Apocalypse is LOVE, Apocalypse is LIFE!


If you aren’t playing Apoc in Apex you’re Ass


Possible new card love for Apex?

“Construct”, a hardware, virtual resource, or program that can host one connection and take on its abilities. Thematically it would be like the construct program depicted in Neuromancer. Making it program might make the most sense thematically but would have to be zero MU to be usable in Apex.

ETA: and thematically shouldn’t Sacrificial Construct be a virtual resource (or hardware or program)?


Chopbot can be quite useful versus many of the tag storm decks in the current meta.


Or a card like “Husk” which lets you turn a resource into a virtual resource.

I really want to know Adam’s and Apex’s supports. Sunny’s is okay, but I want to see those two get blown wide open.


I don’t care what the card does, I just really want Apex’s card to be “Corrupted Cybernetics”(or Bioroid) and have a illustration of an infected Adam.


And Adam’s can be “Domesticated AI” and show Adam walking Apex on a leash.


I really like this list. I’m waiting for Liberated Mind to go Tournament-Official on Jinteki before I play it there, but bringing to game night tonight with the real cards.

I haven’t played apex since the MWL (I ran a very blitzy 3x Maker’s Eye 2x Legwork PPVP Apex with 1x e3 and 1x Faust as a panic button) so I’m really programmed to facecheck with Apex but this deck seems to want to do the opposite - get a Corporate Scandal up ASAP and never interact unless its apocalpysing or messing with remotes. Maybe you facecheck the non-centrals?

3x Making an Entrance, 6x Party, and 3x Sports Hopper is really fast.

I just have a couple questions regarding money - how is it? With 12x econ cards and 6 of those being Party, how would you rate your cash flow? Do you commonly go below 5c when up and running?

Do you still feel, a week later, that 3x Out of Ashes is too many or just right? Out of the Ashes seems to really sync up with say e3 + Ichi 1.0, but I don’t really see it being nothing but a good Hostile Infrastructure removal in your list. I would be deathly afraid of facechecking a central and running into something I cannot break, like a Resistor or something, since Out of the Ashes is just a regular run since there’s no alternative breakers in your list.

That goes to my final point - would Expose be a good mechanic here? 2x Infiltration, for example, to judge whether its safe to facecheck and tax the Corp or to hold off for a Blackmail.

The list looks extremely tight, but I want check if 3x Heartbeat is necessary (maybe 2x since you have no support programs), and how Out of the Ashes is working out for ya. 1x Deja Vu looks like a good card here because of how important Blackmail appears to me.


Is Eater a candidate for a support breaker for Apex?

It lets you get past tricky ice to hit it with Prey and can set up Apoc if no Crisium Grid in play.

Just trying to brainstorm how to deal with the range of ice that Endless Hunger can’t eat. After watching worlds, I’m struck with how big a pain Resistor is for Apex. It led me to contemplate Disruptor for a few minutes even.


Don’t? I seriously have no idea how Apex is supposed to be playable, much less competitive right now.

Reaver has to be one hell of a card to do much of anything.


If you want to break resistor out of apex, gingerbread is less inf and less to install.

Apex has trouble affording the inf for the events that make an eater based deck possibly (esp after spending the inf on eater and the inf on breaker search tools to get it reliably), you’ll be sitting around for loads of turns with eater doing nothing.


After a few games my biggest frustration is with how it feels to play him. It does not feel like you are playing an aggressive predatory attacker. Because of the slow draw and economy, more often then not, you are spending lots of time getting set up.

Heartbeat won me a couple games vs Jinteki decks, but they were slow grinding games.

What is the strongest Apex net deck right now? Maybe my list is bad.


Unfortunately Apex is the Urien of netrunner - the designers were so terrified of Apocalypse being overpowered* that every other in-faction card it has has been gimped into unusability.

There have been three ‘successful’ (and I use the term very loosely) apex builds

  • one that uses Exclusive Party/Out of the Ashes/Chop Bot to cycle the events into the heap (where they can be used for value)
    -One that uses hyperdriver and faust to go all in on apoc (this one has been made unusable by faust and clone chip going on the MWL but can still work in casual)
  • One that uses corporate scandal and/or fan site/frame job to enable blackmail, then blackmails to get the apoc off.

The latter is the one I’d go for if forced to play apex, note it also uses exclusive parties for apex value.

*Obviously the 3 inf balances apoc for out of faction use.