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"That's not a virtual resource" - The Apex Thread


#507

Anyone tried the Flashpoint breakers for support in Apex yet? Paperclip is obviously a good card. The falconry breakers are all expensive, but they have an inbuilt way of returning to your hand before you Apocalypse, and Golden can derez Architects…


#508

Paperclip is a decent thought.


#509

It’s 1MU so it basically says play this or your breaker, or always have your console out. I hope it’s strong.


#510

Yeah, except you are probably best off not playing Endless Hunger most of the time.


#511

Play Q-Coherence chips so you can install additional breakers after you’re done Apocalypsoing. If you draw then early, install em facedown.


#512

I’ve been working with Apex the last couple of days. Losing a lot. The list below is my current version, but not one I feel great about. The big problem I find is coming up with a good answer to all the kinds of ice that Endless Hunger can’t deal with. I have tried various AI programs in the slot currently held down by Grappling Hook, and, like the Hook, they all have glaring weaknesses.

The biggest problem is that I can find a flexible build that can handle all the different problems that you run into playing various Corp IDs and factions. I’ve wondered if he should just play a traditional breaker suite and give up on Endless Hunger, but then his ID ability is nearly blank except vs. Jinteki.

If they would just change the ruling that “End the run” includes subroutines that include words in addition to ETR, it would be a huge leap forward for the cuddly little predator.

Apex Grapple Party

Apex: Invasive Predator (Data and Destiny)

Event (21)

Hardware (9)

Resource (6)

Icebreaker (3)

Program (6)

25 influence spent (max 25, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#513

So here is a list of ice that were particularly problematic in recent games with Apex:

DNA Tracker
Hive and Tour Guide (no e3 turned up in that game)
Stacked Data Ravens into Data Ward
Resistor
Assassin

I can think of solutions to all of these, but not a single solution that covers them all with any efficiency. Apex does not generate enough cards to play Faust well and no other AI covers all the bases well. My current Grapple Hook with e3 is good against things like DNA Tracker but has no answer for Resistor, for instance.

I’m curious what other approach to breakers that people have taken.

I’ve been tempted to try the Anarch from the bin breakers and ditch Endless Hunger. After Apoc, use Chop Bot, Heartbeat or Prey to toss the face down breakers back in the bin and fish them out again. It would be very expensive to install a 3-breaker suite more than once, though, and a huge tempo slow down after Apoc.


#514

I’d personally wait until Reaver releases and try that card out to see if it enables you to use Faust effectively enough. I think the playstyle they’re trying to promote is using Faust and Chop Bot / Reaver as your main method of icebreaking, and Endless Hunger exists to apply early pressure and enable Apocalypse, and be a quick way to keep running after you Apocalypse the board.


#515

Reaver has been surprisingly good in testing. Not that Apex will be competitive, but since NBNs ice is pretty terrible with Faust as your icebreaker it is surprisingly easy to launch prey runs to remove problematic ice.


#516

So here’s what I came up with when Reaver was spoiled. It runs no EH, too many popular meta cards make it useless. A nice benefit is it makes Prey playable again as you have more cards to sacrifice. Haven’t had a chance to really test it until Jinteki.net adds it in. The anarch breakers are there because they’re good and efficient and you can sacrifice them without worry, but mostly for Turing.

Apex F

Apex: Invasive Predator (Data and Destiny)

Event (20)
3x Apocalypse (Data and Destiny)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
3x Infiltration (Core Set)
3x Injection Attack (23 Seconds)
2x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]●●●●● ●[/color]
3x Prey (Data and Destiny)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
3x Chop Bot 3000 (Order and Chaos) [color=#FF4500]●●●[/color]
3x Heartbeat (Data and Destiny)

Resource (8)
3x Hunting Grounds (Data and Destiny)
2x The Turning Wheel (The Liberated Mind) [color=#708090]●●[/color]
3x Wasteland (Data and Destiny)

Icebreaker (8)
1x Black Orchestra i[/i] [color=#FF4500]●●[/color]
3x Faust (The Underway) [color=#FF4500]★★★●●●●● ●[/color]
1x Paperclip (Blood Money) [color=#FF4500]●●●[/color]

Program (3)
3x Harbinger (Data and Destiny)
3x Reaver
22 influence spent (max 25-3★=22, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Escalation


#517

Do you have enough draw to fuel Faust?


#518

Each reaver draws 1-2 cards each turn…


#519

Reaver + Chopbot means you are installing a card with Apex’s ability, then chucking it and drawing two.

You can also trigger hunting grounds to install three and draw 1-3 with reaver on the corps turn.


#520

I guess I’m not understanding the process enough.

It seems like the draw with Reaver will be very dependent on combos or the Corp if you don’t have Endless Hunger in the deck. You need to have Chop Bot or Prey or a Corp doing damage to you.

I’ve not played it yet, but it feels like a rather inconsistent draw engine.


#521

No more or less consistent than the old Wyldpancakes of Dumbleforks.

Its basically a Wyldside where you cycle a card every turn, to draw 2 cards that can get turned up to 3 or 4 cards a turn, every single turn.

Its far more reliable and consistent than Endless Hunger in the meta right now. Endless Hunger is borderline unplayable right now.


#522

I’m interested to try this or a similar build. I also think Utopia Shard has a place in almost any Apex build for many reasons. It breaks up combos, and can be used as part of the apoc turn to cripple the corp further. The fewer options for the corp after apoc, the better.


#523

Utopia and Hades are both worth a look. I think Shazzner’s deck is pretty close to what Apex needs to run right now and it looks far, far more competitive than anything Apex could run in the past.


#524

Also I think Infiltration should become Interdiction once Martial Law is legal. It would prevent surprise crisiums or other things you weren’t expecting.


#525

Am I missing something with “draw 3-4 cards every turn”? How do you do that when Reaver is “first time”.


#526

I think the assumption is multiple Reavers.