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"That's not a virtual resource" - The Apex Thread


#527
  1. Chop Bot 3000 also draws a card.
  2. Reaver is non-unique, and it’s not unreasonable to expect to be able to install 2 of 3 by the time you’re really set up.

#528

You can also (in a pinch) trash a hunting grounds on the corp turn to draw 1-3 cards and install 3 cards, which you can then chopbot and draw 2-4 more cards on your next turn.


#529

Heh, Reaver + Heartbeat is even more survivability - not only do you prevent damage, you also draw up to three cards as well.


#530

Interdiction is a good choice, Infiltration was mostly leftover from checking to see if EH could get through something.


#531

So, here’s my current Apex list. I’m pretty happy with it, once you get two Reavers out along with your Chopbot and Wastelands it become a pretty real engine. You also have the luxury of cycling the Anarch breakers from your hand, and being able to fire the Chopbot first before the Apex install is pretty good too.

Apex F

Apex: Invasive Predator (Data and Destiny)

Event (20)
3x Apocalypse (Data and Destiny)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
1x Employee Strike (Data and Destiny) [color=#708090]●[/color]
2x Infiltration (Core Set)
3x Injection Attack (23 Seconds)
1x Interdiction (Martial Law)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]●●●[/color]
3x Prey (Data and Destiny)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
3x Chop Bot 3000 (Order and Chaos) [color=#FF4500]●●●[/color]
3x Heartbeat (Data and Destiny)

Resource (7)
2x Hunting Grounds (Data and Destiny)
2x The Turning Wheel (The Liberated Mind) [color=#708090]●●[/color]
3x Wasteland (Data and Destiny)

Icebreaker (6)
1x Black Orchestra i[/i] [color=#FF4500]●●[/color]
2x Faust (The Underway) [color=#FF4500]★★●●●●[/color]
1x MKUltra (Martial Law) [color=#FF4500]●●[/color]
2x Paperclip (Blood Money) [color=#FF4500]●●●●● ●[/color]

Program (6)
3x Harbinger (Data and Destiny)
3x Reaver (Martial Law)
23 influence spent (max 25-2★=23, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Martial Law

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Edit: I’ve been toying with dropping the second Paperclip and adding in another Employee Strike and an E3 Feedback Implants.


#532

What do we think of Apex post MWL 1.2?

What are the best hopes for a functioning deck?


#533

You basically have two routes, prepaid Apex or the upcoming shadow net.

I am not entirely sure either will be that great though.


#534

Prepaid seems, well, a very strange idea. With what card you think it’ll be good to waste a draw, an install and 2c ?
They are pretty much 3-4 shots each don’t you think ?


#535

The effects of the MWL on Apex:

  • Charging Apex 3 more influence for Faust is very inconvenient. IMO, having access to influence-free Reavers is one of the best things about being Apex, and Faust was one of the best ways to take advantage of Reaver.
  • Apex has a love/hate relationship with glacier. The other best thing about being Apex, of course, is Apocalypse, and glacier means both that Apocalypses do more damage but also that they are harder to land. An Apex trying to land Apocalypse generally hates defensive upgrades too, so I think the net effect of MWLing Rumor Mill is negative for Apex. As an aside, I think since Friends in High Places came out the glacier matchup was kind of garbage even before Rumor Mill scared the defensive upgrades away.
  • Blackmail isn’t really an option anymore, even though that was sometimes a cute Apex trick.

Ultimately, there are two Apex strategies. Go all in on Apocalypse and build a lean rig that gets you through three central servers once, or build a weird drip econ engine on the back of cards like Reaver and Wasteland (with maybe an Apocalypse backup plan).

I’m not really feeling the first plan at the moment. The second plan might be fun. Shadow Net might help. PPVP probably won’t help much but if you want to do a Sunny impression out of Apex, it is a good option to consider.


#536

Interesting analysis, @Sanjay

I’ve been working on a deck that uses Eater as a secondary breaker with the specific idea that you use Eater to trigger Prey on all that annoying ETR ice that is not hit by Endless Hunger and to trigger Apoc runs. (I also like having his breakers be Endless Hunger and Eater.)

I find my biggest problem is that it is so hard to get enough draw to get him up and running and sustain its pressure. Reaver just is not enough and Chop Bot eats all the cards it needs for Endless Hunger and Prey and Heartbeat (if playing Jinteki).


#537

Eater paired with system seizure would help quite a bit landing Apocalypse if needed.


#538

Does Apex have the economy for that? I always feel like Apex doesn’t have enough money, which is why Faust was good in him.


#539

Great question @Arthur_Barnhouse. In fairness, Faust was great in everything.

Peace in Our Time is the latest hope for money. PiOT, Sure Gamble, Wasteland. Not a great econ.


#540

I’ve found that Build Script, PiOT, Sure gamble, Deuces Wild isnt too bad. I’ll play the other deuces mild card from terminal directive when that comes. I’ve found the casual Meta pretty good for Apex atm - my Apex list hates NBN ice and there isnt too much of that around


#541

Build Script, PiOT, Gambles, Deuces and Dirty Laundry are kind of the new baseline for mini-faction economy IMHO and is also a big reason why I was advocating Prepaid in Apex at all. Its probably not worth the slots and set up, but Build Script alone is pretty great in Apex as you need MOAR draw!

Sounds interesting. Eater is a bit appealing with cards like Injection Attack to help open up those big runs.

Next week you may also want to check out Shadow Net and Fan Sites. I am not sure what you can really do with the fake agenda points aside from turn them into money… but maybe that will be enough?

Also, when the next pack drops, Apex can turn Endless Hunger into an AI that can click through anything (at a cost of 1 click per sub). That might be great, depending on how common best defense is.

Oh and also leave two influence for Turning Wheel so you have some kind of multiaccess!

Good luck!


#542

No money for Eater in Apex.

Edit: also you’d need replacement access effects to make it any good, a la keyhole Siphon etc.

Spyware still works, although the cuts make it much weaker. The changes are you lose the Rumor Mill, swap MK Ultra for Mimic, drop Paricia (which sucks against triple friendsworld)… in the meta it is in a much weaker spot.

Shadownet Fansite will be a nice combo when it comes out - it’ll shave Influence if you go down to a single Faust I guess.


#543

So far I have not run into much glacier in my testing, so you might be right about the money problem. I’m trying to figure out how to time going for Apoc runs. It is a tricky and interesting deck. My time might be better spent playing “good” decks, but one thing I notice about playing Apex is that it really gets you to think about ice and which subs you are afraid of and which ones you can just let fire.


#544

Is Apex really so poor that getting Data Dealer will help him…?


#545

It’s sort of a combination Data Dealer + Same Old Thing which makes it a bit more exciting?

That said, I think you are pretty right to be skeptical.


#546

I am not expecting it to be cray-may-zing. But considering Apex still doesn’t really have a functioning build in the competitive scene I think we are all just throwing out things it CAN do.