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The cards that made us mad

Netrunner General
#21

This is a different discussion, as it has to do with a lot more than just Yoggability. Lotus Field probably shouldn’t have had all of the following attributes:

  • Unyoggable
  • Unparasitable
  • Uncarveable
  • Bounceable with Blue Sun
  • 1 influence

The combination of the first four meant that Anarch had zero in-faction solutions (unless you count Force of Nature, in which case I’m done discussing :stuck_out_tongue: ). The fifth meant that it was a much more common problem than it should have been.

Keep in mind that this all happened at a time when Anarch was hands-down the weakest runner faction. At the time it came out, it would have been much better if Lotus field were un-shutdownable - still waiting for a piece of ICE like that, and quite frankly it blows my mind that despite a 2-year stretch of Criminal tournament dominance there still doesn’t exist a single piece of ICE with that atribute.

Yes, I am.

Yagura, Gyri Labyrinth, Ireress and Clairvoyant Monitor are all extremely interesting designs that are (with the exception of Yagura) basically unplayable. The problem with 0cr-break becomes that anything costing more than 1 credit to rez becomes extremely “meh”.

RSVP is another victim to His Yogness. Viktor 1 being completely de-fanged isn’t a good thing either.

4 Likes
#22

How have they nerfed crims?

1 Like
#23

Then corps are having the same problem as before, with Anarch & Shapers decks at least.

This is quite stupid…

And by the way, Lotus does not “give the Anarch a bad time”, it just completely define what an Anarch deck should defend about, using inf for this.
Without this, it’s “gtfo my servers, AnarchS, yog is NOT one of your cards”.

I do not know any other corp card that make a problem of runner deckbuilding like this for Shapers or Criminals. Especially 1 inf.

#24

But you have Forc- … hmmm, you do have Knight, Darwin, Eater + Spooned. :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though, I can understand what you mean but compare the Anarchs decoder situation with the Criminals fractor situation, same for Shaper and killers. And lets not forget that Yog.0 is only bad against a single ice, against every other code gate it can still be the most efficient breaker. Imho, the big problem with anarchs was the lack of a good deck backbone for a long time. But that time has passed, the draw and econ package is quite diverse and very efficient by now.

2 Likes
#25

I did compare before Sansan…
Anarch are the only faction to have 2 “worse side” breakers and that is only if you call FoN a breaker, but lots of ai.
They are the faction with the less breakers too (followed by Criminals).

AI have the same problems as Yog, somehow (unsolvable situations but based by boardstate, not by deckbuilding) without for exemple the parasite problems of Yog/Lotus field.

FoN is a decoder that cost 2 inf less than Zu to deckbuild, but 4 more to install, and +0.5 / sub. I think FoN qualify as the worse card in the game, in a no credit faction…

I’ve given up putting any decoder in my Anarch decks… They are of no use unless you want more mu problems with Anarchs.

#26

I still maintain that Creeper is a far better killer than most people give it credit for, especially against single sub high strength sentries. I honestly think Creeper-E3 is a somewhat viable breaker suite - parasite down the really obnoxious komainus, Creepr-E3 through the rest.

#27

Creeper is better in a Shaper deck than Force of Nature is in an Anarch deck :slight_smile:

Aurora is better in a Criminal deck too.

Damn it, everything is better than an Anarch decoder in an Anarch deck

:s

#28

Yog is still awesome in an anarch deck. To use creeper in shaper you want to have Datasucker and Parasite as support. In Anarch decks you want NRE as support for Yog.

#29

By printing good cards for every faction over the past year except for Criminals

#30

And mu support for Mimic / DS / Parasite & Corroder, not to mention Medium and what else.

NRE is one more moving part in an allready “crippled by moving parts” faction.

All of this is solved by AI, to me.

Recently I’ve been playing a MaxX, Wyldside-pancake, Faust, 2 larla, 3 cc, 3 crescentus, in the 60 cards.
Duke nukem style “come get some”.

It have some results, I’m happy with it without any Yog, but 2 corroders and 2 mimics.

#31

I don’t know; the Shaper solution is pay 1 influence for Mimic and Sharpshooter the rare and misguided attempts by corps to lean heavily on Grim/Archer. Anarchs use D4v1d instead of Sharpshooter, which isn’t really as good for that purpose but is rather more versatile.

There’s very few pieces of ice a Criminal looks at and goes 'Well, I’m not getting into that server ever again!", particularly with the plethora of good tricks and tutoring they have available. For a long time, Lotus Field was that piece of ice for Anarchs. The only reason it isn’t any more is because Faust is so good (far, far too good to be quite frank - the power level jump in Noise decks we’ve seen is kinda silly).

#32

They attempted this with the cards that punish the runner for installing on the corps turn, but made the mistake of putting the Housekeeping ability on a current rather than stapling it to something more useful, and made Docklands Crackdown far too expensive to be usable.

4 Likes
#33

Every time I get grumpy about a cool card that could have been stronger I’ll come and read this thread, shows that overpowered cards are far worse than underpowered ones.

Also if I had to say, the only cards imho make the game less fun are smc and datasucker (maybe also mimic/architect one of them needs to change so you don’t need the other).

#34

so much negative energy.

do we really need threads like these?

9 Likes
#35

Giving other factions more stuff is not a nerf. Quite the opposite in fact. :smile:

Isn’t the problem rather that certain corp archetypes (I.e glaciers) have gotten an upswing? Archetypes that crims generally have had less answers to.

2 Likes
#36

It’s a relative nerf. If I wanted to make you appear shorter I could just make everything around you taller.

#37

Well, to be honest, Knight was always an Ok solution to the Lotus Field problem. Anarchs had the best breaker suite and Lotus Field was the only ICE that suite couldnt handle easily. Even as an Anarch player, I think Lotus Field was needed because Yog was the only decoder that was actually played and it made most Code Gates a joke that you could toss right in the heap.

The actual problem for Anarchs was no useful card draw, no breaker tutor and no useful economy. My Whizzard deck from a year ago didnt import any breakers card draw (QT) and economy (Desperado, Security Testing) . The breakers were fine with 3x Knight, Yog, Mimic and Corroder.

2 Likes
#38

I’d agree, except Blue Sun was on the scene and splashing them.

#39

Keep in mind, however, that we’re still talking about about a baseball player prancing around on a kindergarten yard. Now that the other kids have grown up to match, complaints from the baseball player that he didn’t get to grow as much as the kids seem amusing, to say the least.

(also, there’s been at least a couple good crim cards in Lunar - Leela, Switchblade, Rex. The list of good Shaper cards out of Lunar isn’t all that much longer when you look at it…)

1 Like
#40

Yeah, I always found Blue Sun to be extremely annoying to play against because Parasite and Knight became so useless. But thats a Blue Sun problem and not a Lotus Field problem.

2 Likes