I’d like to see a deck with 3x Muertos, DLR and Fall Guys though. Talk about a tax you can’t refuse.
And then Paper Tripping, so they spend a whole turn trashing your fall guys just for you to drop all tags click one the next turn.
If you can get out of the store before they draw their gun, you’ll be just fine.
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So I played about 4 games with this last night and I liked it.
A few thoughts:
- I wish I could put a 3rd Clone Chip in. I would like to play Rex instead of Zu.13, but that might put too much strain on the Crowbars.
- The Dyson Mem Chip can probably come out. I didn’t install it in any of those 4 games. 5 MU seems like more than enough to be effective.
- Levy was actually great for this list. Even just recycling Siphons is strong, but I always managed to burn Clone Chips early so it was good to see them again as well.
- The Special Orders are really clutch. I used them number of times to fetch cloud breakers when my Corroder and Zu.13 were on the board.
- I really wish I could put Kati in the deck, but you really don’t want to waste money clearing Siphon tags. Maybe 1 Lawyer Up? You can always SoT it to draw 4 cards I guess.
- Bank Job is pretty great against RP at least. Dirty Laundry + Desperado + Bank Job = sure I’ll take 14 credits from the Mental Health Clinic.
- 1 R&D seemed ok, but not great
- Desperado is still good.
- 1 Grappling Hook/E3 would be nice, but there might not be enough space unfortunately.
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I agree in every particular, except maybe about Kati. I still haven’t had money problems, but if i did i think I’d want another bank job instead of Kati.
Dyson will stay in for me because it’s situational benefits against big ice is worth about one card slot to me, but i don’t anticipate playing it often. If influence were freer, datasucker would probably be better.
I actually made the switch to Rex (two of them) to get the third clone chip back. The more i thought about it the more it felt like one of the best cards in the deck, since it’s often worth 2 draws and a flexible break. It’s like a super b&e breaker. Going to two Rex i dropped one special order, zu and one crescentus. 1x Rex might be the better answer, but i felt like more breakers can’t be a bad thing for early pressure. thoughts?
1 rdi feels like enough to me. You draw so fast you’ll likely see it by mid game, but you don’t want to see it before you can pay for it. Though it does sort of suck to see it on street peddler and know you have to pick it because you can’t get it back.
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The wish to include Kati is less about having money problems, but more for the synergy of using Sec Testing/Bank Job/Dirty Laundry to get money now and store money on Kati for later.
I’m so torn about the 1 or 2 Rex. If it was Str 2, then there would be no question I think. But the fact that Rex only really saves you 1 credit, generally, compared to Zu.13 is a bit depressing. But sometimes freeing up influence is nice.
Clone Chip is amazing for Geist. In my previous Super Cloud/Faust lists it was easily the best card in the deck I think. It just gives you so much flexibility.
I never feel too bad about the Peddler hitting something I “need” because you at get the free draw after using it, plus the discount. Having Levy also makes me less worried about losing things early from the Peddler. I really love Street Peddler.
Either way, this feels like the right direction. Using B&E to help build your boardstate while still making impact runs is definitely the way to go.
What big Ice are you really worried about?
None in particular, but Tollbooth always sucks and sometimes HB will have Heimdal. There’s also always Blue Sun and whatever mean tricks they have, but the ice above 5 strength are going to be very rare, generally. If I could get 6 memory I’d be super happy, since 5 breakers + 1 Crescentus gives all the breathing room I could want. 4 breakers + crescentus means paying for breaking tollbooth, and 5 breakers means you have to rely on your clone chips for crescentus. That said, it’s never bad to have only 5 memory. There’s just some instances in some games where it’s nice to have the breathing room.
I know, but it still feels bad in a wistful sort of way to see RDI, Faerie and Shiv on a peddler and know that if you don’t pick RDI, you’re not going to see it again until you Levy. Pitching the Faerie and Shiv means you’d down two sentry breakers and maybe have to lean on clone chip a bit more. It’s obviously better than not playing Street Peddler (my rule is to play Street Peddler when I draw it almost without exception, since it’s never going to be worse than not playing it) but still, I’d rather draw into RDI naturally and play it when I’m ready, rather than have to pitch stuff for it.
I had a Peddler hit 2 events and a Desperado yesterday, after I had already played Desperado. Much bitching ensued.
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Been there. I’ve also whiffed with peddler in this list. It’s one case where going tag-me is nice in this list 
Sometimes people obligingly trash Peddler to throw your useful events back to where SoT can reach them.
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[quote=“linuxmaier, post:369, topic:4242, full:true”]Sometimes people obligingly trash Peddler to throw your useful events back to where SoT can reach them.
[/quote]
I didn’t even think of that, but that’s amazing. Good Guy Corps helping Geist out. 
I can see the logic behind wanting 6 MU or wanting the Cloud on. I just wish Dyson wasn’t so expensive. If Forger had just been hardware and didn’t have the console subtype that would’ve been perfect. But that might have been too powerful.
I’ll play around without the Dyson tonight and see how it goes.
Also, I took out a Faerie, and added 1 Grappling Hook + 1 E3. Ashigaru was giving me shit last last night. Going down to 4 Killers might be a bit dangerous, but Grappling Hook hits a good number of Sentries (I’m looking at you Ichi 1.0) so hopefully that’s ok.
Yeah, definitely let me know how that goes. I usually have an unused killer in hand/on the board at the end of a game, so it’s entirely plausible that the deck has too many. It’s nice to see them early, though, and nothing feels better than breaking Susanoo with Faerie and then shutting it down with Crescentus. Take your anti-Shaper tech and stuff it, RP!
EDIT: Ashigaru would also be an awesome Crescentus target. I don’t generally mind paying a bit of cash to get through something with a regular breaker if I know that they’ll have to pay for it again before I have to break it again. I think I made a guy pay 24 credits to keep a tollbooth over RnD, and that’s after he trashed the Susanoo that I shutdown, too.
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Crescentus is just really good, especially in Geist.
Also, the extra Clone Chip should help to cover the lower number of killers, in theory.
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Ran it through the gauntlet a bit last night. I messed around a bit with Hacktivist and few other varients, but I think I setlled on something very similar to your list. Something that might be heresy is that I switched the two Special Orders into 1x Drive-By and 1x Unregistered S&W.
1x Drive-By is an absolute bomb. It puts the corp into a ‘rez’ everything mode, and you can smugly sit back and know that you played your one and only one. It’s also hard to scout if you have more than 1 in a tournament setting. 1x Unregistered is my ‘Queens Gambit’ equivalent, If you ever get it on peddler it is devastating against Upgrade reliant decks, especially if they start pre-rezzing due to an earlier Drive-by.
Otherwise, I found myself clearing tags a lot. A lot of the tier 2 decks out there are tag punishment, and a good 40% of the decks in the hot spot corp meta are also tag punishment. 1x Plascrete never made me feel safe enough to not clear, though I’m sure you clear anyway versus Butchershop. I honestly wished I had a Crash Space instead of that Plascrete. it would help a ton running through Data Ravens and Gutenbergs.
That’s one thing I missed about Forger Geist, it had some stylin’ plays versus them. Otherwise Desperado is as always, great. It gives me remote game to contest assets and makes SecTest a viable threat to Archives and derezzed ICE. Tollbooth is a real pain in the ass with 5 MU though, without a way to have Crescentus and a 5 STR Crowbar out, I honestly don’t know the right line of play. I did swap the Zu for the Passport but Tollbooths typically live on Remotes.
EDIT: Multiple edits and updates.
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What did you cut to fit in Hactivist?
I also considered using Drive-By and S&W. I’ve played against a S&W before and I’ve lost Jacksons to it because I totally forgot it was even on the board. I think it could catch a few people by surprise especially if you install a few turns in advance.
Crash Space is an interesting thought.
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Both of those seem like solid meta calls if you’re having hard times against RP. Special Order fills a nice slot in this deck by allowing you to fill a gap in your breaker suite if you find you’re missing, say, your decoder, but it’s definitely one of the flex slots I swap back and forth on. I think my current list is at 1x Special Order in order to make room for an extra Rex. That could be a mistake; but I wanted to give it a go.
If I were given two slots, I’m not sure I would devote them both to anti-upgrade tech; I think I’d rather run 1x Drive By and maybe 1x Grappling Hook, since that’s good against Blue Sun and S&W still feels frustratingly slow to use effectively. It’s still 3 of your clicks before you can run the RP remote, still giving yourself only one shot to get in. If they have a Nesei token, you’re actually unable to get in on the same turn as you kill Caprice, and they’ll just Interns her back. I’d just rather try and bust in the old fashioned way.
Yeah, you’ll definitely be clearing tags against Butchershop. It’s fallen off a bit in my local meta so I’m not teched hard for it, but if there was a lot around I’d probably run 2x Crash Space and cut a SoT, maybe, since SoT Siphon when you’re not going tagme is rough. That said, Crash Space is useless against the Midseason its self. The right line of play against Butchershop is likely to be to slow down, build money, trash theirs (Desperado and Dirty Laundry is awesome for this) and camp any remote to prevent the BN->Scorched Traffic kill. I’d avoid centrals (except maybe to Siphon) until the late game. I think 1x Plascrete is ok here, since you’ll draw into it fairly quickly in most games.
Ultimately, if you’re clearing tags a lot in games I think this will end up being the wrong build, as it really starts to shine once you stop caring about the tags. If you’re starting to slot Lawyer Up or leaning on Crash Spaces, it’s probably going to be better to play a deck that benefits more from keeping the tags off and exploits a resource economy. Running econ is hard to play in Criminal if you can’t hold the tags at least some of the time.
If you’re going to Crescentus it right away, I think it’s ok not to break it with Crowbar. Obviously crowbar->Crescentus is amazing, but if you’re paying 8/7 and they’re paying 8, they probably aren’t going to be too happy for it to be a one-time affair. Another play is to have 5 breakers installed and clone chip, then clone chip in your crescentus after breaking with crowbar, since it’s all in the same paid ability window.
Tollbooth is the primary reason I do have a 1x Dyson in the deck, though, to make Crowbar->Crescentus easier to pull off on the regular, and to ease the tax on my clone chips acting as spare memory.
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@Danwarr I cut the Special Orders for the slots, and swapped a Breach/Passport for the influence. It ultimately didn’t work out though. If I were to ever play Hacktivist in Criminal it would have to be Andy for that turn 1 slam and threaten with Inside Job.
@linuxmaier Yea, the Unregistered is mostly a crapshoot versus RP. But sometimes it can work, and while its not the most graceful tech card, it helps a lot versus HB Breaker Bay Glacier, which is more in my meta. The RP matchup is more there as a scare factor. Also, it can snipe Batty in NEXT Gold decks when they freak out upon seeing Drive By. Though NEXT Gold shenanigans is not too bad with Clone Chip Faerie.
I played with the Special Orders as well, and man, did I miss them when I cut them. I would be one breaker away from landing a Siphon early game and I would have to draw into it. I am definitely not leaving home without 1. My suite is Rex, Corroder, 3x Spike/Crowbar, and 2x Faerie/Shiv. The sentry ratio feels very right. I’ve played against RP x2, HB x4, and one Butchershop and the shiv faeries were always available and on time. Rex is a bit better for the Tollbooth problem we are talking about, though damn Passport is good. At least Rex saves 1c on Enigma? 
That stuff about the Tollbooth timing windows… I didn’t know that. That’s huge. I’m gonna have to research it myself so I know it’s correct when I explain to someone how I did it. Thanks for that.
My logic for Crash Space is still not convinced, though you are correct that Criminals can’t afford to clear tags in this meta. You and I claim the way to beat Butchershop is to sec-test and clear remotes, but in order to contest remotes you have to be prepared to eat Data Ravens. Crash Space can pick up an easy 4-8c of clearing savings if you find it early enough, which helps with running through Gutenbergs for 2 cards or checking the Data Raven remotes. I dunno… I just think that between the times I want to clear to save my needed Sec Test or timely SoT and Butchershop, I think the Space is the right call.
If they get a ‘I win’ start you basically lost anyway, with only 1 Plascrete to find.
let me know what you think. These talks are great and all very minor, and for what its worth I’m 5-2 against the top tier decks. The wins aren’t easy, but man are they fun. I’m surprised @steve_houston did so poorly - I’d like to hear what went wrong outside of feeling sick.
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Gutenberg is only a problem on RnD, and if you’re backing off of centrals (which you can more easily afford to do since they don’t have Biotic) then you can focus on the Data Ravens alone. They’re decent derez targets since Butchershop doesn’t want to pay 4 over and over to tax you 2-3 credits and a click. They’re probably still winning in that exchange, but not as heavily. Crash Space is certainly good in this case, I just don’t like it enough to run it elsewhere and it not being good against Midseason which is the primary kill vector in Weyland these days makes me want to give it a pass. If I wanted to be more sure of my butchershop matchup, I’d run an extra plascrete or an extra bank job (money is life in that game). There’s so much competition for slot 46 in this deck it’s nuts!
Another possibility I’ve toyed with is slotting Femme in the deck, since it’s so good against Tollbooth and Data Raven. However, it’s terrible to draw early, so I’m not doing it for now.
My suspicion is that this is where I’ll end up. I tend to be a bit conservative on the breakers side of things, so I could probably do with cutting 1xRex and 1xFaerie for other tech. That said, this deck in particular loves breakers even if you’re not using them to break ICE right away since they’ll boost the strength of your other B&E tools. Zu was an awesome early game play in a way Rex won’t be, but at least Rex will still help Spike get up to Eli range.
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His economy package is pretty different, looking at his posted build. Not running Desperado would make the remote economies harder to trash, and he reported losses against NEH and Midseason. Dirty Laundry/SecTest/Desperado makes you insane amounts of money in those matchups and if you control the asset econ early you have a fair chance of being ahead on cash.
Any body still playing fall guy in non-connection geist? Does it feel solid? Thinking about it this morning, I’m almost certain dirty laundry is a better card, even in Geist. Both save you a click (dirty laundry gets you a run, fall guy a draw) but dirty laundry gets you 3 credits to fall guy’s 2.
EDIT: obviously off-campus/calling in favors changes fall guy’s math a bit in its favor, but that’s a pretty dedicated deck.
Fall Guy seems pretty mediocre to me unless you have plans to use it as a Fall Guy. Sadly, this means you don’t get the draw unless you have 2 installed simultaneously. 2 creds and a card for a click is alright, but no better than that. Alright doesn’t typically make the cut. I’d written Geist and the Cloud breakers off, but I’m excited to give it a go after having a look through this thread.
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I see Fall Guy as similar to I’ve Had Worse where it’s an ok card at the base efficiency, but it earns slots as damage protection.
One Fall Guy on the table can let me draw on the Corp’s turn to survive 6 meat from Punitive or Traffic+single Scorch.
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