On the Lotus Field solution tip, I was thinking 2 SMC, 1 Atman, and then 3 Clone for E. Kim and Whizzard, and maybe even Valencia builds.
MaxX’s need for larla screws that up a bit, but 1 SMC, 1 Atman, and 1 larla with the clones could still work. Is 1 SMC too vulnerable? Probably not with 3 clones.
Special Orders and ZU seem functional, but SMC and atman seem killer in Anarch with stimhacks and parasites, and medium too.
I think if we’re basing conclusions strictly off of empirical evidence it’s easy to discern that MaxX was meant to be played in the forums more than the table.
My only area of confusion is whether or not she’s winning or losing, but as of now i’m erring on the side of losing.
All the AI’s are really bad though 
Crypsis costs so many clicks, and is so slow and expensive.
Eater doesn’t let you acess cards
Knight Loses to blue sun
Overmind Is ok, but aweful after you setup. if it were 3 counters no fuss it would be an auto 3-of
Darwin takes to long to actually get going
Atman is hard to find since it costs 3 influence a pop
Knight would be ideal if blue sun didn’t exist, and overmind would also be OK if it could be used after you set up. Sadly we live in a world with blue sun and a very meh overmind. Knight does have issues of his own but not as severe as Overmind. Atman is ideal, I’ll try a build with Yog, Mimic, corroder, 2x Atman later and compare it to Gordian/mimic/corroder
They spoiled my fun by being civil.
My bad. I did miss the satire. Retracting the reactionary post.
me too then. you’re a big man keno /shakeshand.
ok syntax (and others) you’re a math guru, I…not so much.
If you like using math to determine what the optimal size for MaxX’s stack then can we determine the average number of turns a typical netrunner game is played in? that would go a lot further than “90!” wouldn’t it?
also I’m wondering if the need to find your influence is going to be as vital as it is pre-O&C? Clone chips are all but ubiquitous but they basically are more recursion, not recursion that your’e digging for. Special orders are common but they are typically inserted into a slot that would otherwise hold the 3rd ICE-breaker. It’s hard to imagine someone using influence to insert something into their MaxX deck that does something the anarch faction doesn’t do as it’s easily lost. It seems more likely that it’s used to cast your net (as in deja vu+clone chips) so much wider that you’re more likely to perform the function you require.
Eater does seem more in her spirit. medium is typically about “searching” and using it to set up demolition runs seems like too much finesse for her. Keyhole and Wan…ahem Wonton destruction are more about getting in and fucking shit up.
So if you spent your influence on 3 clone chips and 3 special orders, you’ve now cast the net in your deck to include a pseudo 6 eaters and up to a pseudo 9 recusion options (deja, retrieval. not including SoT’s). That would leave 3 influence for a LARLA. I personally do not hate trope as it gives you total control over what’s being drawn but I do agree you need it early, although with a MaxX deck that packs LARLA you get second chances to use trope to repopulate your deck with econ/event cards.
If they had Day Job sleeves (ofcoursetheydont), they’d be worth every penny for 90 sleeves.
I hadn’t seen this spoiler yet. Now, 3 credits is better than 1 card, but this might just replace Aesop’s in standard Noise?
Pretty sure it’ll be in the Valley, right up front of SanSan Cycle.
Nope. I see 45 cards. I only draw 18-19, but that’s very different – I know where they all are and have semi-reliable access to all of them.
A) How am I doubling my clicks [spent]? And how can anyone else do this? I get free clicks (in draws) and access to other cards earlier (via recurision “tutors”). Sure, I’m not just drawing them – but I get to see three cards each turn without doing anything. I might have to use resources to access them reliably, but I still get the chance to access them.
B) Not quite sure what you’re saying here. I get through my whole deck, then can LARLA if I need to go through the econ and such again? Yeah, that’s the whole benefit of MaxX. It’s not like running out of cards is much of a problem most of the time – LARLA just gives a chance vs PE and lets you have the option to run through again in high-octane mode once you’re set up.
90 cards means you don’t run out of gas as quickly, but I don’t think that adding more cards in that degree is going to be a particularly helpful solution. I’m not even sure going up to 47 is strictly correct, though it does provide an extra draw. More cards with same proportions is about okay – but without combo pieces BlacKat is much worse than corroder. And stats aside, lots of games will leave one thing or another on the bottom of the deck. In 45-ish MaxX you’ll mill through and have a better chance of accessing them through that. In 90-card they might actually be stuck.
And the loss of inf is pretty big, if you want something enough to splash for it, not seeing it suuucks.
C) No, you. Seriously, there’s so much LESS luck involved with a smaller, tighter deck. PE will be a rough matchup, sure, but that’s a meta-call, not luck. But I know that in 13 turns I’ll have seen everything – with 90 cards, you won’t have that guarantee until turn 26. Bad luck on the draw or poor shuffle? Nope, you’re stuck with it.
Speaking honestly, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. 45 is going to be far more consistent, and consistency is reliability if the deck is good. Are there some games where bad luck means I’ll run out of cards and not see all the pieces I need? Maybe. But that doesn’t change with more cards in the deck. There’s just as much of a chance of you drawing all 6 fracters and no killers as there is for me to mill all my recursion AND the cards I need to worry about recurring.
Eh, maybe. Salvager + Earthrise seem like a decent swap for Aesop’s + Wyldside, but then Noise is a whooole lot poorer and needs to find some more economy pieces.
Already wrote above that I’m using PPoV.
In testing, I found clickless to be too slow from Maxx, and as I wrote before, Max is more a straight ahead damn the torpedos approach - anti jank at its finest.
I have been playing with a powernap version, (sans wyld) but it is not consistent.
3x breakers is mitigated by 3x wyldside.
And potentially by retrieval run, deja, by special order, and larla. At the moment, I’m testing with uninstall. Each install is netting 8-12 tokens,
Currently, I’m using hardware tutoring as well. Juries still out.
I was trying to say among other dozen of draw / discard problem some of you overlook, that if you play with classic 2x breakers, you have something around 12.5% of chance to have all 3 breaker running @ turn 12, 37.5% to have 2, 37.5% to have 1, 12.5% to have 0
=> you have to save 0/1/2/3 recursion shots for breakers or you can’t 100% access where you want + 1 mandatory for this Larla…
You still can “see” the card of course but honestly guys I wonder how you can defend a deck that is not installed for sure at turn 12… Unless you throw all your inf @ larla, 3x clone chip, 3x special orders then 3x retrival run, 3x SoT, 3x Deja Vu, 6 breakers, say you put 2x console, 4x some medium / nerve / keyhole / hemorage, no Parasite / silverware, rest of money, I see no solutions…
Beaten horse here… I perfectly know what to do with her, it will never be a 45 larla deck unless I’ve got a plan to play with AI breakers. Because it’s slow and crap vs cambridge and difficult to play vs tag & bag.
I think this fundamental slow install problem + all the others is quite something I don’t search in any deck I play…
Anyway I’m not an ayatollah everyone plays as he want, including me with a crappy deck 
For other points
a) you double your clic because you need to tutor back the things you wouldn’t have lost with any other ID.
b) you were not in hi-octane if you’re still installing at turn 13 and doing things in your side at that time (hey, look what I did there, Calimsha 
You were reproaching this exact thing to me 3 days ago on r4g when looking upon my “pop song” solution that still win some games vs NEH btw :D) : meaning you just lost to any FA deck. Turn 13 is damn too late man, astro train is skyrocketing !
About that 90 number, it’s a number > 45. I’m thinking in 15x : 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90. 15 mean 1x breakers to have around the same odds for mulligan as a 3x breaker 45 card classic deck. 90 was really a simple sample to show some effect people overlooked, but maybe 75 or 135 is the rigth number, I have to test this.
I won’t play Corroder / Blackat. I’ll choose one + a saving AI, even a crap ai. That way odds are still the same as 5x breakers : its unlocks servers the same. You draw one breaker and installed it : odds to find one specific way to unlock breaking your way is still 5x remaining a card.
In 45 deck you can’t draw. Because you passive draw and passive discard allready so you don’t want to overdraw and discard more of precious and anytime useful cards.
In “90” / 75 /135 / anything, you can draw because all program are x3 so it mean dead cards when they are here to be discarded. Capstone or better FCC them.
[quote=“Syntax, post:298, topic:2378”]You installed that clone chip with a use or you just lost 1cr + 1 click (and more with larla) in this game ?
[/quote]
Clone chip costs a credit but you save the click by installing a program, find targets reliably with your mill ability, aside from Parasite, which is often the best thing to recur anyway because it’s fucking awesome. The credit you pay not only buys you reliability and options, but it can be used at instant speed, preventing your opponent from knowing what you’re going to do and allowing you to react to the ICE your opponent rezzes on the fly.
It’s an auto 3-of in basically every Maxx deck.
The problem in all your math lies in the fact that you only look at the average value of drawing a certain card, while in reality you need to look at the mean (consistency) value of something (eg drawing a certain card or combination).
Example: you need to draw A and B, 2 draws allowed
2)Your pool is AAABBB: odds are AA:3/15 AB:9/15 BB:3/15
As you can see, the bigger the pool, the lower the odds of drawing AB, the less consistent your deck gets, while your ‘average’ draw stays AB. If you have a 90 card deck, theoretically you can draw 45 A before you draw any B. By only looking at average values, you ignore the extremes (but they happen a lot more than you’d think).
Frank Karsten wrote an awesome article using simulations and simple magic decks. Reason 5 was a big eye-opener for me:
Basically, he thought that he could come up with some example where the mana ratios warranted a larger deck size, but in the end, the fact that you increase variance by including more cards, (more likely to draw AAAB rather than AABB), made so much more of a difference than the perfect ratio that it never did.
This is not really a problem, I’ve got a solution on this.
I think 99% times like you but not for MaxX : you also have to discard.
You think because you can clone chip (for exemple) things, discarding them is the xact same as drawing.
Well no.
In the drawing scenario you can instal now. In the discarding scenario you have to draw (and not discarding) clone chip, instal it and call back.
That’s why I say that’s slow.
In half of the case you found clone chip before : the’re no slow down. In the other half, you threw a breaker and still have to draw the clone chip. Result is time before a breaker in a classic deck = 150% maxx’s.
A larla maxx would make no real and fundamental difference with a heavy draw / larla chaos theory there : you auto discard in max, you overdraw in ct. But you can count on lot more recursion deck + eventually deja vu (as you import cs from shaper) + eventually other faction breaker.
In MaxX you will have to use the anarch suite because of larla / cs / adviced special orders => 15 inf
In CT you’d have 3x deja for this, use test run or smc for special orders and a very straigth recursive plan and a lot more control on stack and heap, discard is controlled. Call back card are in the deck, if you draw, you can’t miss them.
In maxx you can and you will miss some capital piece of a so much complicated plan to target and keep. That’s why I’m doubtfull about this…
Yeah sure. Actually auto discarding IDs is a very common mecanic in Magic…
Do you actually know why you don’t play Texas Hold’Em with a 32 card deck ?
Thanks for that link, the article was really good!
Will be interesting to see how MaxX turns out, she should be really fast but is likely forced to spend a lot of influence in a certain way and not sure if the Anarch cardpool can compensate for that.
I’m trying to understand what you mean exactly, but here are some remarks.
-You’re more likely to miss a critical piece the bigger your deck gets. Adding more critical pieces doesn’t helps, as it’s all about the % of each piece in your deck, not about the actual number of cards.
-MaxX’s plan is really simple. Get your breakers out (by draw / recur / tutor) and run. Add the tricks you fancy and make sure you have enough econ to pay for your cards. Same as any runner actually. Whatever your strategy is for a longer game (Larla or bigger deck), don’t rely on combo’s, as you are more likely to miss a key card. You can larla as much as you want, there is a possibility you’ll always discard what you wanted. You can make a deck as big as you want, all copies of your key card can be buried or got discarded.
-From the above follows that you need to include cards which are individually powerful. This means the 45 most powerful cards, rather than the 90 or so most powerful ones. Larla will recycle your set and what you draw then will be way better than whatever your bigger deck decides to cough up. You must just try to have a ‘second cycle’ use for each cards, for example special order won’t be so good as you should have all your breakers already, but clone chip can first cycle be used to recuperate a breaker, and second cycle for a parasite.
Man, if I could bring my own custom 32 card deck to Texas Hold’Em, I bet I’d get really good draws :).