Caud is a better faceplant than pup, for sure.
But Pup is better at eating both Parasites and Inside Jobs
Sometimes it doesn’t matter if you show the triple punitive, for instance if +7 credits puts you well out of equal credit range. I’m a big fan.
Wow. There’s a lot in there. Thanks everyone.
On DS, I think either way is fine. There are advantages to both.
Celebrity Gift was something I was considering when I was looking at the six influence I had kicking around. I like it in theory, but my issue with it was not showing 3x Punitive but showing 0x Punitive. That’s basicly a green light to the runner to go crazy for a good few turns (unless you burn clicks digging for Punitive, which can back-fire badly). But based on what’s been said, I want to give it a go.
I tried a Green and Blue Level-based build (without BER) and honestly I found myself with not a huge amount money and often agenda floading myself. I that set-up lends itself much more to a rush build, which is fine, but not prehapes where I am right now. But I can see BER really helping with the right ICE and maybe that makes the difference.
On Pup, I love Pup. I think it is the best taxing ICE in game because a) its tax is always more than its cost (especially in ETF where the first one on a server is essentially free) even if it gets parasited and b) you can’t just hit it and bounce off like Eli. I particularly like it in this build because it effectively switches off a server for Security Testing for a single click and that is really important against Criminal. Having said that, Caedusus does make them fetch a sentry breaker, which Pup doesn’t. My feeling at the moment is that I still prefer having the extra 3 influence to play about with, but it may change.
I’ve used Celebrity Gift in slow HB decks and I think it’s a wonderful card to have. Just a shame it costs so much influence. Good luck
my opinions about running punitive in HB:
yes you need to run all 3-pointers. doing otherwise devalues the option of using punitive as a method of victory.
Yes you need jacksons. You need to be able to leverage your punitives as soon as possible. Also dumping points into archives gives you the option of allowing them to score it because you know you’ll be able to kill them next turn.
you need as many econ cards as you can squeeze so that you can effectively leverage your punitives.
You need 3 archived memories so that you can get your combo up as fast as possible. If they install plascretes and you can’t permit them to score 6 points you can use the archived mem’s to dig out econ cards. its never a dead card.
spend your remaining influence on ice. If the runner accesses a tollbooth or lotus field they can only assume that you may be playing glacier and that you are not playing scorched.
run at least 2 copies of sleepers. gives you the last point when you score traditionally and forces an educated runner to respect the possibility that you have archers (if they haven’t seen your PC’s).
Do not use too many expensive ICE pieces, it will remove your punitive threat.
gl and hf
been playing a similar deck quite a bit, and I have to disagree here. there are so few agendas, the likelihood of an untenable flood is just, so, so low. the deckslots and influence would cost a lot for cards that aren’t econ or ICE.
I’ve been running it; it’s definitely good in this deck. I think sweeps is probably still worth it though; great recovery if you get caught low.
definitely.1.0 is too vulnerable to e3 or just straight clicking, amongst other things. Deus Ex is rough here, but 3 extra creds won’t fix that.
It happens more than you’d think, but Jackson’s not there for Agenda flood.
He’s there to let you bait the runner into scoring 6 points in archives exactly after digging for 2-3 Punitives, so you can just wipe them out in one go.
So…I put in Enchanced Login Protocol. Gez…is that card vicious in a deck with only 8 agendas. Suddenly running an Eve or Adonis to trash it is half your turn, and then you hit Enigma. I’ll put the latest list up sometime over the weekend.
It and Architect are amazing in regular Red Coats, too.
This is the latest list. Jackson keeps coming in and out. The biggest struggle I find is drawing ICE consistently enough to build the scoring remote quickly. Jackson helps with that to the extent he can draw cards quicker, but hinders to the extend he’s another non-ICE card.
ELP is ridiculous. I’ve pulled loads of economy because if ELP comes down your money robots suddenly hang around rather than just getting trashed. And if they hang around, you never run low on money. I regularly get more credits than I know what to do with now.
I’m convinced by the agenda spread now. Vitruvius is very easy to score in this deck, either because they run an Architect late in their turn, because they can’t keep running every face-down card with ELP on the table or in the usual way. Late game it is murder for the runner, because they have to run every face-down Eve, Jackson or Adonis. And if you double over-advance it, you can Punitive them at will and are basicly immune to Noise. Finally, there’s one less Agenda pull to end ELP. Obviously the runner pulling a 3/2 is much less likely to kill them, but it’s still possible.
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core Set)
3x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
1x Eden Fragment (The Spaces Between)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Eve Campaign (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ••
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead)
2x Archived Memories (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
3x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors) ••••• •
2x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between)
3x Wall of Static (Core Set)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
Code Gate (6)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••
3x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
3x Pup (Honor and Profit) •••
1x Taurus (Upstalk) ••
2x Architect (Up and Over)
15 influence spent (maximum 15)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Up and Over
Hm, so little big ice? Pups? 1 Tollbooth? Only 2 ash? Can you elaborate a bit on those choices?
There is an argument for pushing the ICE size up now that ELP is in the deck. But most of my experience prior to that was that the runner would be keeping up with and trashing my money-bots pretty easily. So I rarely had the money to rez big ICE and instead focused on ice that gives the most taxing effect relative to the up-front investment. Now I think I’ll probably put in a Heimdell or two to up the mid/late game options.
Pup is to make R&D taxing, to protect a money bot server or to stop Security Testing on Archives being worthwhile. It’s pretty much always been good in my experience, although late game it becomes less useful.
Only 2x Ash because space. Ash isn’t that important to score with most of the time and you can AM it back if needs be. But yes, I would rather three if there was the space.
What do you think about Deadcoats now? Is it viable in the meta in these days, as we are seeing lots of glacier decks appearing and fast runners disappearing a bit? Also, people don’t really anticipate meat damage any more (except for butchershop, but even Bootcamp Glacier is more popular than Blue Sun kill decks), especially in HB. Or has I’ve Had Worse killed Deadcoats too?
I had moderate success with these key points
-next suite and other cheap but taxing ice
-pop up windows
-corp troubleshooter for next gold
-7x3 with 2 sleepers
-jackson and archived, no reclamation
-GLC BLC Restructure Hedge Subliminal
Are you kidding? Every Blue Sun I played last tournament was trying to murder me horribly. At this point I’m expecting meat damage from everywhere. Even from Kate. She’s tricksy.
I find that with IHW and those still running plascrete, and utopia, most kill decks are soft, except butchershop and pure kill weyland. If you’re going to do kill HB, I’d run 1-2 snares to pre-trigger IHW, which means you need 1-2 brain damage to make it really sing.
It’s interesting - IHW has a bigger fail rate versus 3-damage Punitives than 2xScorch, although better than against Traffic Accident -> Scorch. The other key factor is that one IHW doesn’t stop the triple punitive. Problem being, you have to make each shot count. You can’t give up a 5/3 and not respond.
I think you’re worrying unduly. Quetzal is hardly the most popular runner, she’s been a 1 or 2 of at the last few tournaments I’ve attended (all with 50+ entrants). Plenty of other corps play the 1.0 ICE without worrying. You have to accept that you’re going to have some bogey match-ups and just concentrate on being as effective as you can against the 50+% of the field who bring Kate, MaxX and Leela.
Its funny you mention that, since I believe to my soul that quetzal is the 2nd best anarch and no one plays her. I do not understand why.