It just seems to me that we have got a match made in heaven.
First there is Eater+Keyhole leting you see 3 cards for every click, you got your RnD acess.
Add to that Wanton Destruction to get yourself HQ acess PLUS a way to get rid of corps combos(read FA).
Only problem with this suite is that you cant acess archives cards nor remotes.
Well who wants to run every turn AND has a way that is way better than singularity to handle remotes and archives?
Valencia!
She gets money for each run you make AND if you see the corp advancing something you think you need to run just Blackmail away, how many times in a game do you really need to access remotes anyway? more than 9?
If you really want to go all in you can play investigative journalism+anarch current to punish FA a bit but i think that might be a tad slow for FA like NEH.
The main goal seems to be get the draw power(even duggars helps a lot) find the breaker+Keyhole and go wild with it, running wanton whenever you feel the corp is holding stuff.
What you guys think? SoT+Deja Vu is a given but it might need a lot of stuff to work im not sure how to minimize for the deck space, how much econ do i need if im getting discounts from BP each run?
The only real issue I can see is that she’s 50 cards – a balancing choice made, I assume, because at 45 she was too consistent to be balanced.
So, yeah, going to be doing a Valencia Combo deck, myself, and looking pretty forward to doing so.
EDIT: Also, the great thing with Itinerant Protestors is that it’s set up from the get-go. If you can play it and Investigative Journalism on turn one, on turn three they’ll be at a 3 card handsize if they haven’t managed to score already, which certainly isn’t impossible.
That’s obviously an ideal situation, but once the handsize starts shrinking, Wanton Destruction and Legwork get much better, Dunno if the “reduce HQ size to 0” plan is enough to really help win things, but it’s certainly not nothing, especially with Blackmail around to allow for instant access on scoring remotes.
But then they can draw up and hold the cards. That’s just unacceptable. Letting your opponent do more than topdeck doesn’t seem very sensible.(And hey, if they don’t have an HQ you don’t have to run it!)
I think you’re going to get a huge benefit from Amped, which allows things like install journalism → Amped → use Journalism. I don’t think trying to stick 5BP on the corp is realistic, but if you can get 2 or 3 out with itenerants on the table, you can finish the hand off with wanton destruction or hemorrhage.
You’re going to be getting stupid money when you run, so I’d either combine this with economic control in the form of Siphon/Vamp/ice destruction or a money sink for all those bad pub credits (Personal Workshop).
You really DONT Need a money sink for the bad pub, if you have eater on the table all the bp money is going to be used on making a sucessfull run on RND or HQ. If you got to the point in which RND runs net you money, you should have just already won from keyhole acess.
BTW, is investigative journalism a good econ card? suppose it needs 5 clicks, and you value each click at 2-3 credits, you gotta make at least 10 runs for each resource you use, just to get even…that sounds like a LOT.
or is the prospect of getting money while running too good and the value of those clicks are less?
So long as you run plenty, it’s a lot more. If you run 12 times afterward, it’s 12 credits – more than enough for your numbers. That’s also not including the synergy with Itinerant Protestors – which is pretty incredibly powerful, easily worth running 3-of.
Using it for cash isn’t the best plan, but to land Keyholes and whatnot it seems very doable. Keyhole away Ice/Agendas, parasite and cutlery away what they rez to stop you, laugh. 4 runs in a turn isn’t unimaginable.
my problem is what about JH? Wont he pose a problem? And how many remotes does a corp normally have? hoping 3-6 blackmail runs is enough in a game…maybe run infiltration/singularity?
But, yeah, JH is an issue for Keyhole decks. But I don’t think an impossible one. If you’ve got Hades Shard out you can fire it off before they have the chance if you want to be sure to grab some of the agendas. If not, yeah, he might grab a few, but the idea here is to set up an unstoppable chain of Keyholes as much as anything else, at which point it’s just delaying the inevitable.
my problem with keyhole chains is:
if im using my money on keyhole runs im not card locking the corp like normal rnd dig… whats stoping them from just FA stuff or trying to score stuff and be faster than me? plus we need something to combat wraparound/AI killer…wraparound can be dealt with cutlery but we seem to still need parasite for AI killer right?
well that’s the trade off, Keyhole is just going to be much faster than traditional RND lock, Keyhole sees 3 cards EVERYTIME, so you can potentially see 12 cards in a single turn, whereas (sans scoring or trashing) RDI will only see two cards.
Imo Jackson is like Siphon. Yes, it’s a thing, but you simply learn to play around it, like you do Siphon, and occasionally you just have to accept that its a good card.
The bigger problem with Keyhole imo is that you really need to be making a lot of runs for it to pay out and also the 2 memory. If you can only make a single run a turn anyways, normal multiaccess is just plain better, and at 2 memory its hard to build a rig.
the whole rig is eater+keyhole, how hard to build is that? btw do you guys think its easy to bring crypsis/knight for normal breakage? just for remotes/archives?
I’d do Eater + Keyhole + 2 Suckers, with the fifth memory slot usually reserved for Parasites, then going to Crypsis for the final run (in case Hades Shard decides to be a no-show in that particular game). Use Spinal Modem as console, for extra sustainability.
Cutlery runs don’t seem to have a place in such a build, though - they’d just be expensive parasite install lookalikes. Those events are best when you can come through with normal breakers (or potentially D4V1D), just making sure that particular piece remains a one-time problem.
Not sure Spinal Modem is better than Vigil, vigil gets you 1 card( 1 click) while modem gives you only two credits and is more expensive.
and yea cutlery runs is a parasite look alike but check this out: just see them as money cards that cost the corp money, since you will be running a lot at least on RnD its better to break something one time +2c than to pay it everytime. Thats why trashing ice is so good, your dealing with the problem for good.
Vigil’s draw is conditional upon what the corp does and can be played around relatively easily. Spinal Modem, on the other hand, directly feeds into your own gameplan. It’s not even more expensive - if you run the turn you installed it, it’s just costing you 2 credits, same as Vigil. It requires a higher initial investment, but combos better with Modded, which you very easily might want to be running, as both of your critical pieces (Keyhole and Eater) both cost 4.
You fell into a bit of a straw-man there. I’m not arguing “trashing ICE is not worth it”, I’m arguing “Parasite is a better way of trashing ICE if you’re doing Eater”. You’re obviously not cutting Parasites and Dejas, now the question is how many other slots you’re devoting to ICE destruction and whether they’ll be cards to make Parasites stronger (Clone Chip, Savoir-Faire), Cutlery, or some combination thereof.
p.s. Spooned obviously has to stay, because burning down Lotus Fields is awesome.
i think silverware is better than clone chip for a couple of reasons:
NO FREAKIN INF spended.
combos with SoT if you are in trouble
Clone Chip really needs Datasucker for at least the big ice, but although datasucker is awesome if you are running a lot, remember that a rig of Eater+Keyhole is 3 MU already and i will be having around 4-5 MU max(normal+ console) so i dont really have much space for datasucker if i have a parasite down,so it seems like bad slots…right? or is it the prospect of a pseudo BP (virus token) too good?
Problem is, they kinda take a lot of space, but which corp doesnt play at least 2 ice of each type?
So, whatcha gonna do with all your inf, now that Anarchs have actual card draw and economy? Paint your daughter’s room with it?
Anyway, those might be strong points, but how about the downside? They don’t combo with either part of your primary game plan - you can’t do them during a Keyhole run, you can’t do them during a Blackmail run. That alone is enough for me to prefer running the Parasite + CC suite primarily, investing a couple slots into MemStrips to make it happen if needed. That way, I have other avenues open, like feeding a Medium as a byproduct of my Keyhole runs, maybe packing Chakana to further work with the primary game plan.
Well, I am speaking generically (i.e. a 3 icebreaker rig).
As you mention, you’ll need to something to break into Archives. That puts you at 4 memory, and not counting if you want Datasuckers (which you can get by without) or Parasites (which I would loathe to cut). Also keep in mind that Knight would be a difficult option since they could just double ice archives (or a scoring server).
[quote=“Amyr_Lozober, post:17, topic:2393”]
i think silverware is better than clone chip[/quote]
Agreed. If you running Eater, it’s easily the better choice. The loss of not being able to do them during a run is sort of moot when you don’t fear Ice anymore. Normally, you don’t really want to facecheck a Komainu and then Parasite it, but with Eater it really not a big issue if you facecheck it since it can’t hurt you anymore. It’ll cost you more in the long run (assuming, incorrectly but let’s just assume, that there is no cost to accruing the necessary datasucker tokens), but in my eyes its much better.
I feel Valencia wants to play some silverware events because they can be very strong in certain situations. I feel almost every Valencia will play 3x Blackmail and some SoT. Planned Assault also really works with these. Then adding 1x of each silverware event will complete this package more without taking many card slots.
