This makes me sick. The analysis of this card in terms of “costs the runner this, costs the corp that” is completely off base on how this card works.
Did you know that ash is a click to draw, a click to install, and 2 credits to rez? Thats 5 clicks and the runner only has to pay 3 (plus the run) to trash it. Ash sucks.
He’s got a good point though. Predictive Algorithms is poor value on its own. You need runner currents to destroy, or trickery with something like RSVP or Universal Connectivity Fee.
I see a lot of synergy between Predictive and/or NAPD, Future Perfect, TGBT and Fetal AI
Really, any deck that lets you allow the runner to access, but denies the steal (Red Herrings, RSVP, or the tax of an Ash/Caprice might even make it work alright).
Its not like… amazing, but its perfectly playable in any deck that wants to let the runner “touch” an agenda to trigger an ability.
NBN’s in faction support for it is coming later. Jinteki has some good support for it in faction already. HB and Weyland will probably avoid it… aside from Gagarin, which sounds pretty legit to me.
i think PA gives more redundancy to decks that want to go that direction, got RSVP , PA and agenda, turn 2/3 score
**edit, also PA works on every server while its active
I’d challenge the use of the word synergy here. NAPD and Predictive Algorithms do the same thing but is the whole greater than the sum of the parts? If anything I think Predictive Algorithm would tip off a casual runner that they should have some extra credits on them.
If your strategy is to tax the runner then PA, as a non-agenda card that taxes 2 credits, does not make the cut.
The difference between 4 and 6 credits is not insignificant. Add to the fact that most runners will have to pay an additional amount to have the opportunity to access and this is gravy.
Or say you have a future perfect access. The 2 extra they must pay gives you an aweful lot of insurance at times in the psy game.
I am not saying it is top tier. But it is playable. I especially see it right now out of jinteki(probably rp or IG), Gagarin and maybe NEH, although I am not crazy about it out of NBN right now. Maybe after NBN gets more agendas that have an ability that triggers on access.
I just know I will hate seeing this card get slapped down and hitting a fetal.
Tech startup looks way worse than EBC to me. Big handful of reasons…
Any one of these features would be worth the credit EBC takes to tutor; all put together… in a weyland deck there’s simply no question. If I find myself building a non-weyland deck that wants to tutor assets, I’ll try to free up a pip of influence for it. If it’s not important enough to warrant that, I’ll question whether it’s important enough to warrant a no-inf deck slot at all.
There, seems like some people were clamoring for some good old fashioned “this is totally unplayable” elitism, how’s that?
Ash costs 2 to rez, not $3, and often forces the runner to choose between stealing an Agenda or trashing him. If they choose to trash, then you have to tack on the cost of rerunning the server to the trash cost.
Obviously, you know this, and you know Ash is a good card, but Algorithms doesn’t do anything like that. Unless the runner is in this narrow $1-2 credit range where they can just barely steal your agenda, it’s just cortez lock. It’s functionally never going to cost them more than $2. It’s like a Red Herrings that is, despite being untrashable while in centrals, much, much more narrow in its applicability, and we all know how much play Red Herrings sees.
I disagree with counting the cost to draw a card against the cost of a card for the corporation, but this is still a bad card.
Algorithms is still Cortez chip unless they’re in that narrow credit range, no matter what agenda they’re stealing to trigger it. Maybe those agendas are better with it because they could increase the chance the runner can’t actually steal them, but it’s a really marginal increase in value.
The difference is sometimes significant, and sometimes not. It’s only very marginally more significant than the difference between $0 and $2.
Thanks for doing all the work to write this article! I always enjoy reading peoples opinions about new cards/strategies/and game play.
All I can say is that it’s pretty embarrassing being apart of this community and reading some of the comments made here…
Both of you have stained this thread with high levels of negativity. If you don’t like the article that’s fine, you have a couple of options for a response…
I enjoyed the article, nice work!
If I ever feel the need to include a cheap current in my NBN decks to bring a small benefit while countering runner currents, I expect that to be Targeted Marketing over Predictive Algorith every day of the week.
Also my next jank deck will be Jinteki Biotech Twins flatline combo, it will be glorious!
Thanks for the review. Some interesting insights. I like the addition. Of deck
It’s but maybe hiding them behind a link would keep the flow a bit better?
I’m very interested to see how Clot not only changes the corp meta, but also how it changes the meta game both for physical and OCTGN play. The I-A-A, Astrotoken shortcuts that get used will have to include a pause from now on. Same thing with the scoring Hostile “out of hand” and just taking 5c. I have no doubt that we’ll see many an OCTGN game go to shit over this card.
Man, I thought you were going to love Tech Startup. You bring up some pretty good points why it is worse than EBC (specifically for Weyland), but I still think the card gets some play, maybe for Melange. Then again it falls in the murky category of corp cards that are not ICE, not econ, and don’t necessarily help you win, so it may end up in the binder with lots of other cards.
As far as Predictive Algorithms, I don’t see a way to make it work, card just doesn’t do enough to warrant play.
My primary point is that it increases the work that a runner has to do, being coming up with 2 credits in addition to the run. Because the game is played in chunks of clicks rather than all at once, that 2 credits might be the sudden difference between stealing an agenda, and not. That is the true effect of the card, not that it costs the corp x to play and costs the runner x.
To simply state it is a bad card because the credit-for-credit comparison is null, is wrong. Yes, the runner can see they need 2 credits to steal it, but if they don’t know how much its going to cost, it effectively acts in a similar manner to ash/herrings. I don’t claim his point that it isn’t that great is wrong, simply his reasoning.
Also you keep saying cortez lock, but do you mean cortez chip? Cause I’m confused.
The one thing I might see with Predictive Algorithms is the spoiled NBN box id that allows you to play Currents when agendas are stolen, and then it is always out… It still only ends up costing the runner no more than 10 credits a game though. Targeted Marketing just seems like a better 0 cost NBN current.
It’s been hinted that a current is coming out in that box that is absolutely insane, to quote Spoiler-Ken “meta changing”, and that’s the one that should be played with the NBN Current ID.
I think this has to do with the author misspelling “Cortex Lock” in the article before someone pointed it out.
Yes, I did mean Chip and not lock.
The same can be said for Cortez Chip, though. You can use it to make the corp unable to afford to rez their ICE. The fact is though, you have very little control over that sort of situation. Good runners will mostly just gain tons of money until you pressure them these days, at which point you’re stuck with a very bad sort of economy card.
I don’t disagree that tech startup is not great. The 1 cost to trash is bad enough and there is no refuting that it makes R&D weaker. In the specific case that I mentioned, Eliza’s Toybox, it provides the Leela/valencia protection (and rezzez huge ICE for free, which is great with Blue Sun) and the downside of protecting it is fine because you’re going to replace it in that server with the Eliza’s, which you will want to protect too. Melange is another good example, and it would want to be protected as well. I think the card is meh, but it could be fun to try out.
As mentioned at the start, discussing Predictive Algorithms was a hope to push discussion about success with NEH after clot. The card plays to that strategy and I think that’s what the designers intended even if the effect is underwhelming.
Sometimes I underestimate the internet’s ability to just bitch constantly instead of actually discussing the game we all love. Cards don’t have to be “top tier” to warrant discussion and top tier players have to be aware of all options for deck building and while playing. I am not saying Predictive or Tech Startup are going to be good, but you have to remember there was a time when RP was considered unplayable. Good players, competitive players, consider all options even if they decide those options are bad.
“Plus the run” makes a big difference. You only put Ash in decks where that run costs lots of money to make. The run also requires a click, and taxing clicks is more powerful than taxing money. It also is an unknown cost, whereas the runner knows when they need to prepare enough money for it.
The one downside of Red Herrings is that is has a trash cost, and this can cancel runner currents (but runner currents aren’t that good anyways)
P.S. It’s really difficult to write articles - my exile deck that I wrote up was going to be an article, but I couldn’t find enough content to make it long enough.
I think if it was 4 or 5 trash it would be ok to use in non-green factions. Hell, there’s no reason it would be wrong for it to be infinity to trash. Or it could have been able to tutor upgrades too. This falls in the same bin as traffic accident for me; when I look at it compared to EBC (like when I look at traffic accident compared to clot) it makes me wonder if FFG’s playtesters really understand how to judge an effect’s power level, or the intangible cost of a deck slot, at all.
Well, compared to EBC, the idea is that it’s good with Melange, Toybox, and the Executives. I’m sure that’s the niche the designers intended. Still, I agree the low trash cost really makes it not worth a spot, as now you might as well have another copy of melange rather than this.