Thanks to some anon on 4chan. Here it is:
Let the discussions begin!
Thanks to some anon on 4chan. Here it is:
Let the discussions begin!
So. Argus is obviouly made for Supermodernism! Do you think it does Supermodernism better than GRNDL?
And Titan is Weyland FA! Rez Sansan, score Atlas, put a counter it. Do it again!
Weyland/Neutral Agendas that use Agenda Counters:
Edit: It’s a short list.
Order and Chaos Spoiled:
I’ve always been an advocate of a singleton Biotic Labor in Weyland decks, just because of the stupidity potential of overadvanced Atlas chaining with Jackson backup, but… Titan Transnational with Sansan backup puts that all to shame.
The Atlastrain is real, guys.
Assuming these are genuine (and they both sound plausible, but who knows?) I’m not mad thrilled by either of them. Who runs Weyland last click anyway? Just take the tag and lose it. And whilst Executive Retreat actually gets sortof interesting out of the second ID (and the extra influence is obviously great) it doesn’t really do a great deal. Mushin/Grid decks can easily get 3x Atlas counters. How many do you actually need?
I think forcing the runner to take an extra click to steal an agenda could be a big deal. Maybe not, I’ve never played Weyland. The first one that interested me was Shell Game Gagarin and I’m hoping that’ll be a thing. I also feel a little underwhelmed but have no idea what to do to win with the greens anyway.
I think it very easily could’ve been scored or stolen … But maybe that would’ve been OP?
Well, I’m guessing this ID actually can run Dedicated Response Team. Then your decision becomes, lose 2 cards or lose 2 cards and take a tag. If you score The Cleaners it gets even better. Supermodernism is all about making the runner make bad choices!
DRT is a nice idea actually. I think it would be slower and more grindy than Supermoderism though. I guess my issue is that I don’t see Weyland running lots of agendas in the way that PE does and it’s not like multi-access has been Weyland’s weakness. But I guess you could run a lower value agenda count and then its value goes up.
The prospect of chaning Atlas’ is making me a bit more interested in the second ID. I don’t see either of them a dead loss, just not quite Blue Sun levels of shaking things up. But I guess looking back at H&P they feel fairly comparable with say Tenin and feel a bit better than Medtech or Nisei Division - so maybe NEH and Blue Sun have just spoiled my base-line.
We also don’t know much about the corp cards to come. But given how strong corporations are right now, it wouldn’t surprise me if the general power level of Corp cards (including identities) is lower than Runner ones in Order and Chaos.
Sure, while Supermodernism has never quite approached the 15-16 agenda counts of the more out-there PE decks, the typical deck has consistently had 11-12 agendas in it, courtesy of Hostile Takeover and False Lead (and I hear Posted Bounty is making a comeback). So while Argus’ ability is only going to trigger, say, 40% of PE’s, each individual instance is (for argument’s sake) doubly as effective. And let’s not forget that Weyland is a lot better than Jinteki on the counterstrike.
As for the ‘not run last click’ thing: I would expect many Argus decks to be running Data Raven for the additional click compression factor, which instantly creates a really bad choice for the runner, especially with a False Lead scored.
Don’t forget… when GRNDL and Blue Sun eventually get retired - excuse me, rotated out - these boxset IDs are gonna be the ones you’ll have to fall back on.
Will Tagstorm Weyland be a thing? And if so, how is that any different from boring old “SEA/Scorch” Weyland?
The thing about Weyland is that no matter the ID, the game plan is pretty much “Get money, tag Runner, Scorch for Win.” I was really hoping for something in this box that would diversify Weyland’s playstyle, but I don’t think either of these IDs do that.
Titan is an entire new playstyle for weyland, even if the other corps have had the same strategy for a while.
I would disagree. While Scorch is and always will be the trademark Weyland card, I would argue that the most successful Weyland decks are those that trap the runner into making one of two equally bad decisions - I believe the chess term is zugzwang. Supermodernism was probably the first corp deck to so consistently set up no-win scenarios for the runner, but I would say that modern Jinteki decks (both PE and RP) can engineer such situations as well.
I’ve always viewed Weyland as being a rush corp with an alternate flatline condition. Unless the Runner is actively disrespecting the Scorch threat, I’ve found that it’s easier to actually score out while they set up their defenses. Many of my Weyland flatlines in tournaments have been to either carelessness (even among top players!) or plain old no-choice.
I’ll be honest, I’m really looking forward to playing Supermodernism again in Argus. Some of my most epic games (win or lose, flatline or score) have been with my trusty ol’ GRNDL deck, and it’ll be good to put the fear of the W back into runners again.
Not that Blue Sun hasn’t done so already, of course.
Titan seems really strong. I like it a lot.
Argus or Weyland:Personal Evolution is going to be a beast.
Yes, precisely, though I believe forking would be the more appropriate chess move than zugzwang, which more refers to the fact that a person must take a move in chess, while a Runner can just click for credits or something. An Offer You Can’t Refuse is closer to zugzwang.
Anarch (and to a much lesser extent Criminal) are very good at providing the Runner versions of such forks (“Do I wipe the medium virus counters, trash that DLR or ice HQ?”). It’s nice to see another Corp archetype able to manoeuvre the board state into such positions.
Titan seems really good as a Scorch ID. The extra influence lets you play a full set of Snares and 1 Sea Source with 6 Influence left over after Jackson for Econ or ICE. Or hell, you could play 2 SanSan as well to threaten the Altas train. Unadvanced cards in remotes look a hell of a lot scarier in Titan than they do in any other Weyland ID because Atlas gets it’s token for free so a Snare in the remote is a lot more likely to hit. HRI as your 5/3 (probably 2/2 split with the Cleaners) means you should be able to out money the runner… twice. Geothermal also gives another sudden cash boost if that’s where you want to put your last 2 point (but I think 2 HT is better since it let’s you Caboose your train).
I really want to believe that Argus can be as good as PE as an attrition-based shell game deck, but it’s going to need more support than what we’ve seen so far.
First off, “runner chooses 2 meat or tag” is far worse than either “runner takes 2 meat” or “runner takes tag” individually would be. You have to find and rez a DRT just to get it to “runner takes 2 meat unconditionally” in the first place. There’s no doubt DRT+snare is good, of course – main selling point of the deck, for me. But you also have to protect the DRT (and influence is too tight for data raven).
Then there’s the problem of agendas. 3x atlas 3x false lead is obvious, but that’s just 9/20. Jinteki has TFP and fetal which synergize really well with the PE strategy (not to mention HoK); weyland has no such agendas that protect themselves. Plus if you want to count on getting atlas counters, or IAAing posted bounty, you need a cerebral overwriter effect to bully the runner into leaving your advanced remotes alone.
So how do you spend influence in this build? There’s already not room for 3 each of snare, overwriter, and mushin no shin. For the meat damage shell game to be viable, O&C needs to provide one of these effects in-faction, plus there need to be more synergistic agendas.
If that 6/9 spoiled is accurate, that will be just as good as it’ll be so hard to find, for either player, and will fill up a huge amount of the requirement with a single card.
Have been fiddling with Weyland Shell Game for a while now and it’s a different beast. I have much more success in it with rig/resource destruction traps than damage shell stuff. I tried 3 each of Junebug and Psychic Field but attrition isn’t the win here. It’s rig/resource killing.
Once the runner clearly has no more of access to a barrier breaker, you’re like, ice wall, install, advance. No inside job? Ahh well. Sadly I have to run a gimped version out of BWBI because Gagarin isn’t around yet
And then you can hide it on Glenn station! If you draw it. And you score Glenn station. Okay okay, not going to happen that often.
I agree actually. The more I think about Titan the more I like it. Throw unadvanced cards into unprotected remotes. Atlas can fetch Atlas to keep the pressure on and you’ve the influence for snare, Sea, even biotic or midseasons or Elp. Ok you don’t get enormous value out of the ID other than Atlas but it’s a nasty dynamic.