What's up with Criminal?

Political Operative completely changes the value of Rex and related “I can get in guaranteed once a turn / few times” type of breaker suites.

I’ve been proxying it for a bit in various Leela, Gabe Faust, and Stealth Andy decks. It fits anything, even tagme decks like the Gabe Dealer one. The weakness and frustration of Stealth and 3x Rex and even Faust decks is mitigated if you can prevent Caprice/Ash cheese.

They need 2x Caprice already in the server to even stand a chance against 1x Operative in play. Not including if you have more than 1, or Councilmen as well.

It really does murder Caprice. If the Corp wants to jam Caprice #2 and #3 into their remote just to force a score, that’s both relying on good draw and forfeiting the cheap secondary emergency Caprices on HQ that often go down. And if I’m correct, it hoses Batty bombs as well. Timing priority on the runners turn.

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Only 2 months away…

I would think that the Corp can rez and then use Batty in the same window.

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Anyone solved the rig issue for an Apocalypse build in Criminal? Thinking of trying it in Tenma now that he has High-stakes Job.

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Personally I like Apocalypse best with a B&E Geist type build, so they’re disposable and recycle themselves, plus you’re already running a Levy most likely.

im going to try to see if i can get in some blackguard games against some randos on octgn tomorrow. Thanks stimhack chat.

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Stealth Andy is an old, established archetype and it’s easy to make MWL legal. I’m not sure there’s anything new to say about it that wasn’t true last year though (I was playing it for SCs in 2015).

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I agree. It seemed to do well in both Polish and German nationals, anyway.

Any number of caprice is equivalent to one. You can fire pol op while encountering the last piece of ice, before she fires and after she must be rezzed.

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I’m going to bring up a topic that’s currently being discussed in the NRDB in Review thread: color pie.

Does anyone know what Criminal’s niche is supposed to be anymore? I don’t. Anarch has completely taken over the aggro playstyle to the point of importing the crim cards that support it and using them more effectively. Shaper and Anarch both handle control significantly better than Criminal, and each card they print that pushes blue in that direction has been subpar by comparison (eg: Logos, Iain).

They only have one usable tutor and almost no good breakers. They’re supposed to be good at breaking sentries, but with the exception of Faerie their killers are awkward at best. I ran the numbers on Mongoose, and with the exception of Komainu it’s +/-1 cred from Ninja on almost every popular sentry. Cards like Career Fair and Political Operative feel like they’re printed in blue so that they cost influence in the other two factions.

Given all the talk of color pie from Damon as of the MWL, what are Criminal’s specialties supposed to be now?

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Hostage is a good tutor but Criminals lack the influence to import good connections, and criminals own connections are all of the ‘play en mass’ style you don’t want to be tutoring up.

Speaking of hostage that whole Criminal connections thing didn’t really pan out, especially when the single best enabler for the deck was put in Anarch.

I would have said criminals had tag avoidance as indisputably their’s until Jesminder was spoiled lol.

Criminals have indirect solutions (Femme, Emergency Shutdown, Sneakdoor Beta, Drive By, Political Operative, etc.) and limited use breakers (central-only, self trashing, etc.) Anarch was given a different variant of limited use breakers in fixed strength, but theirs have turned out to be really strong while the restrictions to Criminals have been too limiting. Criminals also seem to have the viruses that make money, but without enough support to make them strong. They seem intended to have a connections theme with Hostage supporting one-ofs so they can import all the best connections.

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The connections deck is an interesting design space that, in my opinion, lacks the tools to be competitive. It often takes as long as a big Shaper rig to assemble and it’s not nearly as powerful once it gets there. If you play cards like Off-Campus Apartment in an attempt to speed it up you’re putting all your eggs in one basket.

In addition you need to spend a respectable amount of influence on your spread of connections when Criminal desperately needs to use every point on good breakers, R&D multiaccess, etc.

Having a pile of connections is nice but it doesn’t get you agendas.

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I wonder if there’s a desire from FFG to have a Criminal build that only runs the central-only breakers and imports enough stuff to control the corp from being able to get agendas to score out. Basically using influence to spend on R&D multi access and maybe those connections.

Which Connections do you even want?

There’s Film Critic and The Source in Stirling.

There’s…Street Peddler? In Geist, maybe?

After that, I can’t think of any out of faction connections I’d want. At some point, we might start seeing Off Campus/Tech Trader/Meurtos/Fall Guy as decent package in Geist.

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[quote=“Chuftbot, post:915, topic:4228, full:true”]I ran the numbers on Mongoose, and with the exception of Komainu it’s +/-1 cred from Ninja on almost every popular sentry.
[/quote]

Number reference for those who are curious.

[Sneakdoor Zeta][1]

As for Criminal, there are 5 unknown Mumbad Criminal cards. If High-Stakes Job is any indication, there might be at least a few power cards hidden somewhere, hopefully.
[1]: http://sneakdoor.com/

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I’m going to post a wall of text here. This is how things break down as I see it, by category:

ICE

Anarchs interact mainly with an ICE’s Strength. The lower the better. Shapers interact with its subtypes and number of subroutines–despite Atman being Shaper, they corner the market on “making edge cases happen.” And Criminal interacts with an ICE’s rez cost. (Reina and Xanadu notwithstanding.) The problem is, ICE rez costs have been creeping downwards, giving the corporation the advantage here. This has been good for the game, overall, but Criminals need to be able to interact with the changing meta.

As you noted, sentry breakers are generally terrible, or Mimic. I think this is a deliberate design decision. The main problem, I guess, is that Mimic is clearly good, and the designers don’t want to come up to that level of power. So they print more sub-par cards. It’s worth noting that sentry breakers like Mongoose aren’t the floor of Criminal Breaker power–they’re the ceiling.

CORP BOARD STATE:

Shapers win by looking at R&D and stealing agendas there. Anarchs win through trashing either agendas or the defenses that keep them out of agenda-filled servers. Criminals win by… well, how do they win, exactly?

Criminals are fine with the corporation drawing cards–they want to access from HQ! But they can only do that if the corporation has no place to put these cards to good use. So the Criminal game plan seems to be choking off scoring opportunities until there’s a nice wad of agendas to take. Economic denial (Read: Account Siphon Spam) seems to be the only trick in their pocket for doing so–that, and perhaps Geist’s “Breakers everywhere” deck.

It’s also worth noting that Shapers don’t typically interact with the corp’s board state; Anarchs like trashing everything; and Criminals want to derez things. They really do–they just don’t have the tools to do so.

RUNNER BOARD STATE

Criminals, once sold as the “economy faction,” aren’t. Sure, they can get money from runs, but they’re probably losing money in the long run, whereas Shaper and Anarch economies are powerhouses. Lots of ink on this, I’ll leave it at that.

Shapers are happy pulling out cards from the Stack, and somewhat okay with pulling cards out of the heap–their draw cards only mildly encourage overdrawing, and they’ve got SMC. This makes them pretty difficult to rush against. Anarchs wildly overdraw, because they want to pull cards out of the heap. They’ve got some of the best recursion around. Criminals try to get the perfect hand–all of their cards bring cards to hand to then play later. The problem with that is that the runner can’t “combo out” by playing a certain number of cards, like SEA-Scorched. This makes their style of draw fairly weak. On top of that, they have no recursion, so even if a combo like this was printed, it could only fire once in-faction.

I’m sure there’s more to say, but here are some places where the color pie is kind of well established. I’d say that Criminal, like Weyland, just doesn’t live up to certain base requirements needed for a viable deck.

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That discussion of Mongoose vs Ninja seems a little unfair. From Sneakdoor Zeta, relevant breaks for cards I’ve actually seen serious play in the last 6 months:

Mongoose vs Ninja

Archer: 8 vs 10 (emergencies only I assume…)
Caduceus: 3 vs 5
Tour Guide: 1 vs 2 (or better)
Data Raven: You don’t break Data Raven.
Gutenberg (not R&D): 3 vs 4
News Hound: 5 vs 4
Turnpike: 3 vs 4
Cortex Lock: 5 vs 4
Komainu: Mongoose wins.
Tsurugi: 4 vs 7
Swordsman: 3 vs 5
Architect: 3 vs 5
Rototurret: 1 vs 2
Assassin: 5 vs 5 (you probably trace anyway)
Grim: 5 vs 4
Lancelet: 3 vs 4
Ichi 1.0/2.0 : 6 vs 6
Next Gold: 5 vs 5

So it seems to me Mongoose is much better than Ninja unless you plan on running through multiple sentries per run, where Ninja is infinitely superior. But, at these costs, neither breaker supports doing that. If you run link, Mongoose looks even better as you can often trace through a great many sentries.

Shout out to Cortex Lock and News Hound, the anti-Mongoose cards.

The biggest failing of Mongoose is that it’s not Mimic.

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It’s funny how trashing a piece of ice (in Anarch) is often a lot easier than derezzing it (in Criminal). Yet trashing ice has the same economic hit, and then some. Hopefully more cards like High Stakes Job will make unrezzed ice more of a liability for the corp.

I dunno, crescentus and emergency shutdown are cheaper and more flexible than the cutlery events, criminals decks are just poor at supporting them with their shitty breakers and draw.

Parasite is better than any of them, but then parasite is OP ;).