For a company that intends to sell 15 eurodols of things to their customers per month, that’s quite long.
I just think that Turning Wheel is too fair a card to be restricted and it doesn’t have any out of control interactions.
Please gimme my Temujin back!!
Agreed. I’ve never seen a game where The Turning Wheel has done something where I thought it was too strong. If the runner gets to the point where they are able to access any decent amount of cards (more than 5 which means 10 counters), the corp is probably to blame. They are either going too slow or leaving just an etr on the outside of R&D or HQ. Even with this, the runner has dedicated almost a full three turns to do this. They can only do that if the corp is not pressuring enough.
It’s not like themselves a deadline and then completely ignored it.
TimmyJ can stay gone, Maw isn’t run all that much, those kinds of tiers are bad because they reduce consistency, instead of making the player make deckbuilding choices.
I want MCAAP on there, I hate it so much.
Help me someone ?
MCA Austerity Policy.
What is the problem ? “I can’t put my resources in 1x anymore” or “I have to keep my double in hand instead of discard” ?
Ressource are not critical pieces of a rig. If you make it like that, you take a risk, and must prepare the consequence using prevent effect card or lots of redondancy.
What should be discussed is the spirit of the card :
1 inf + 2c - until this is trashed, gain something on each lockable central run, without a lock, in any server when you shouldn’t, then OS the corp.
Honestly, by targeting only one server, not messing directly with win conditions and costing 2/3 times the inf, Parasite was less strong than that.
I feel like there is a chance Aesop’s will come off. It is rarely being played, and it adds more deckbuilding constraints to benefit the most from its ability. However, that would likely benefit Shapers the most, and they might not need that right now.
I could see Ultraviolet and/or Violet Level Clearance becoming restricted.
If I could make the list myself, though, I would love to straight out ban CI but remove Fairchild 3.0 from restricted to throw HB glacier decks a bone. As long as CI is tournament legal, it stifles exploration of HB archetypes for both game designers and deckbuilders.
I don’t think Aesop’s will come off the restricted list. It could, but I’d put the odds at 70-30 against. I think there are a lot of decks that get a big power level boost from running Aesop and Levy, and a few of those would quickly spring to the top of viable runners.
I think MCAAP and VLC could make sense to go onto the list. VLC is over powered for what it does and it’s ability to fire on turn 1 in CI. MCAAP is annoying, but abusive when paired with FC3. I don’t think either are sure things.
Does anybody think there is a delay in the MWL to put a new card (possibly not even released yet) onto the restricted list?
I’d like to get some odds on a CI and a Clearance (perhaps VLC?) getting on the Restricted List at the same time. CI without FC3 or VLC or GFI might be able to temper it down a bit at the competitive levels. (maybe?)
I agree, if they stick CI on it there’s little chance a clearance also doesn’t get on. The entire point it to disrupt card combos, and CI losing only FC3/GFI is peanuts.
VLC is interesting without being totally busted in Asa. Is Asa still playable if VLC, Moons, FC3 are all restricted? What about MCAAP?
TBH I’d rather just have CI banned and done with it-- as long as an ID that is so good at enabling combos exists, they’re going to be playing whack-a-mole with every card that comes out. There are definitely “fair” CI archetypes, but it’s too hard to restrict the cards that turn into “abusive” CI archetypes without splash damage to other interesting decks.
I like UVC much better than VLC in Asa, since the corp spends their turn to get a bunch of cards and credits, then 2 installs. I could see Asa with Jinja Grid use VLC similarly, but I think I prefer UVC for the simplicity.
I think VLC merits getting hit because:
it can fire on turn 1 (in CI)
it gives way too much tempo for 1 click
it only really sees play in CI (to my knowledge at least)
Either way, I agree that CI having to chose between a clearance, FC3, and GFI does pull back the power level to what I hope will be more in line with the rest of HB; many cards on the restricted list seem to only be trying to hold back CI.
Finally, I am hoping that we will see a new Creation and Control in about a year that can address some of these issues and shake up the meta a bit. Rotate out CI, maybe Clone Chip and SMC for different tutoring effects. Daily Casts and Dirty Laundry can go to make way for other econ options. Reprint Levy to be limit 1 per deck. Of course, this is completely separate from the MWL, other than perhaps removing certain cards could free up some of the cards on the restricted list to come off.
The thing with The Turning Wheel is it doesn’t gain something every run. It only gains someone every second run. If you are having to spend three credits on each of these runs, that is six credits for it to do something. And even then it is only to see one extra card. If you want to see another extra card, you have to spend even more. Even if you wanted to abuse this line of play, you have to be spending six credit each turn. With the two runs, you have to be consistently making those six credits back in your other two clicks. Even if you do find the econ to sustain this, the corp will undoubtedly find another piece of ICE to put on that server to get make it even more expensive.
The Turning Wheel definitely does some work but it is more like a Maker’s Eye every few turns rather than a Medium that will end the game in a few turns.
I think the spirit of the card is perfect. You pay a little influence, a small amount of credits and make a few runs to get a bit of a boost to an access. If it were big influence, large amount of credits or many runs, no one would play it. If it were a huge boost to one or many access then everyone would play it. As it stands, some decks play it that need that extra bit of multiaccess but it is not an auto include in every deck and even the ones that run it, I have never felt the deck was oppressive or broken because of it. Which is what the MWL and banned lists should be taking care of.
Hear, hear. The Turning Wheel should not be on anyone’s list of cards to restrict, unless said person was out to remove all serviceable tools from the game for industrial sabotage purposes.
The best runner deck I could play with Aesop is nowhere close to competitive levels. It’s a Conspiracy Exile actually.
With a Larla it should be somewhere like Sunny.
Metal Jank Solid
Exile: Streethawk (Creation and Control)
3x Aesop’s Pawnshop (Revised Core Set)
1x Armitage Codebusting (Revised Core Set)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
1x Professional Contacts (Creation and Control)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)
2x Wasteland (Data and Destiny) ●●●●
1x Black Orchestra i[/i] ●●
1x Cerberus “Lady” H1 (All That Remains)
1x Cyber-Cypher (Creation and Control)
1x Maven (Free Mars)
1x MKUltra (Martial Law) ●●
1x Na’Not’K (Free Mars)
1x Paperclip (Blood Money) ●●●
3x Cache (The Spaces Between) ●●●
3x Dhegdheer (Terminal Directive)
2x Equivocation (Martial Law)
1x Paricia (Creation and Control)
3x Sahasrara (Creation and Control)
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Revised Core Set
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
I disagree there.
If a runner have 4 counters on its TTW, it’s not the same if he’ve got 0 or 1. He won something.
He’s waving “hey I’ve got a dual Maker’s Legwork that cost 0/0 card to shoot at you”. That’s a quite a threat that he obtained passively.
Legwork’s cost is 2c / 1 card / no other run event. Unless corp can easely install the ice they want, they just put the ice they have until they can choose quite too late in the game (T8-T15+).
Any runner willing those two events pay at least 2inf. There you’re at 1.
All of these are small things but if the spirit of the game is to take risk running, there you have very few.
If the runner doesn’t have good multiaccess, it skews the metagame