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Why is Food Initiative so commonly played?


#1

Over two-thirds of the 13 top decks in Worlds that can be found on ACOO had Food Intitiative in it, and yet no one thinks it should go on the most wanted list. Why is that?
. Doesn’t that give you a moment of pause? Obviously, one influence wasn’t enough, and now we are left with a problem. It’s like Jackson Howard went to work for Haas and this is what we get.


#2

Damon has stated Faust isn’t on the list because it’s too new so it’s hard to tell how negatively it’s impacting the meta. I suspect that the same is true of GFI.

Also, why is it a “problem” simply because it appears in 6% of decks? Jackson appears in basically every Corp deck and it’s not on the list. Same with sure gamble and hedge fund.


#3

This isn’t the case at all. Take a look at the survey in the NAPD MW list thread to see a large number of people stating they would add Food (as well as Faust).


#4

Forget the six percent, that was a bad example. It appears in six percent ever submitted since 2002 to ACOO.


#5

There are definitely different theories here than on cardgamedb. There they say Faust shouldn’t go on the list because it is harder to throw in every deck as it is an icebreaker.


#6

It’s still way too early to decide if a card that has only been legal or little over two months is game-warping enough to warrant adding to the List. Perhaps after losing a bunch of influence for efficient ice and NAPDs, the concentration of Food will go down a bit.


#7

I still don’t see how this is a crazy number. Mimic appears in 60%. Should it also be on the list?


#8

But it is an old card, that is what I am trying to say. Mimic has had since the core to appear in decks, while Food is new.


#9

Team sponsorship appears in 6% of decks as well. Should it be on the list?


#10

Just forget the d*** stat!


#11

Ok, let’s use your example of the world’s decks. They also almost all include a tollbooth.


#12

sigh :confused:

Also GFI isn’t a problem as such that it limits design or deckbuilding in any way. It’s a power boost for a whole slew of decks without actually making any of them broken or having silly interactions. It can’t have, because it’s an agenda that doesn’t actually do anything, it just says that the runner needs to steal 4 agendas (in the right setup), which is about 3 random accesses (to answer the title).

Without any harmful interactions, a strong card that’s generally played just works on the corp/runner balance, and that doesn’t seem too far off imo.

To me this feels very much alike arguing for influence on Jackson or Hedge fund. Yes, they are powerful, but they aren’t problems. They shouldn’t be toned down.


#13

So explain to me why it is so good. I don’t have Data and Destiny yet, (I’m not sold on the mini-factions), so I haven’t been able to play test it. I’ve only played against it. Also, explain to me how the word “Food” was in half of the deck names. Obviously Foodcoats is an archetype, and everyone played it. Notice something?


#14
  1. It reduces agenda density, which is valuable in a lot of decks.

  2. It is worth three points to the corp but only two to the runner. So the runner needs to find four agenda cards but the corp only needs to score three.


#15
  1. It can be slotted into every deck.

I don’t think that it and Faust should both go, but one has to. Faust is too powerful, but requires a deck built around it, whereas Food goes into every deck.


#16

It’s an agenda that doesn’t hurt any more than the other agendas when stolen, yet it’s a 5/3 you can include in your deck to make it so that if you manage to score it, you only need to have scored 3 agendas total. Lowering the density of points available to the runner is desirable, and it’s hard to justify any 5/3 over Food, even The Future Perfect (especially since Film Critic exists).

Clearly, not every deck wants it, but decks that run 5/3s now have to figure out if they can make room influence-wise for Food and whether the other 5/3s available to them are in any way more valuable than the others whose abilities are rarely worth it.

I mean, I don’t think I’d ever put Food into a fast advance deck. Nor would I necessarily put it into a Jinteki deck (though I sometimes do). But given the number of currently playable 5/3s, I cannot help but think that there are few other options.

I think the one influence is enough, especially with the Most Wanted List reducing space influence-wise even in HB, the faction that many have noted to have a lot of extra influence.


#17

it requires about 3 cards more (21.8 vs 18.8 or 18.4 depending on what setup you use) in decks that run 3 pointers for the runner to get to 50% likelyhood of victory off random accesses. Now obviously this only translates against the real combo decks, but even against real runners, they’ll have a factor of random access in their gameplan, it’s not just running remotes or clever “obvious” legworks that bring them the victory.

And as implicated, this is most noticable in a glacier deck. Rush tends to actually want their 3 pointers to pull some weight as to not lose tempo for their stronger earlier game. Fast advance doesn’t want to have something that needs 5 advancement tokens. So you could see GFI as a overall boon to glacier decks (that cannot run future perfect, because that sort of does the same thing).


#18

I agree with you, I was just pointing out that there were people who wanted to add Food to the list.

It also allows for more deckslots because it counts as 3 agenda points when deckbuilding.


#19

Currently lots of people are slotting GFI over other agendas for the points listed above. It trades marginal influence for deck slots and does not have the biggest disadvantage of running a 5/3 agenda (namely being a 3 pointer in the runner’s score area).

The same ‘include in every deck’ statement was true for TFP in jinteki when RP gained popularity after worlds 2014 (and people were calling for it to be limited in some way as well). With film critic people have moved away from TFP because it specifically has a hoser card. Since GFI has no hoser, people will continue to run it if it falls into their strategy, which includes more decks since generally the game has gotten slower since the MWL was introduced. if fastro / HBFA was not as restricted as it currently is, people would not run GFI as it provides little benefits in heavy FA strategies.


#20

It’s the same reason that NAPD used to be in every deck, only GFI reduces the overall agenda density and allows the corp to play a few more cards at the expense of a couple influence as opposed to taxing the Runner for stealing it.

The card is fine. Making GFI cost 2 influence would be crippling. Just because a card is used in plenty of decks is not a strong argument for that card to be added to the MWL.

Additionally, people need to stop complaining about cards that are not on the MWL because they don’t enjoy playing against them. The whole point of a card game is that certain cards bend the rules and create interesting interactions. The MWL came out less than two weeks ago, so it’s too early to tell what should or should not be on the list. Maybe six months or so from now, when we finally get Mumbad 1, all of us will have a better idea of what could potentially be up for addition to “The List”.