Can you elaborate on this? I once saw someone put their click trackers to the place they “used”, so on the stack if they drew, to the server they ran on etc. Something like that?
[quote=“Therad, post:19, topic:5934, full:true”] But it is hard to rule away. Should you lose a game because you forgot to pay for that clone chip? Seems a bit harsh.
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True, but the number of games of Netrunner that seem to come down to a single credit either way never ceases to amaze me. You’ve also got to somehow cover the situation where people lose simply because their opponent forgot to pay for a Clone Chip.
Generally, there is a bit of a conflict in that while fast play is favoured both among the community and FFG as the game producers and Organised Play co-ordinators, there is bound to be some kind of trade-off in terms of mistakes/misplays, since you’re more likely to end up just relying on one player keeping the game state legal since the other player isn’t able to or can’t be bothered to keep up.
I’m guessing, but if it’s like the guys in FLGS do…
You have four tokens (e.g. glass beads, Hobbit miniatures, whatever) for your clicks and as you take actions you assign them. For example, click one draw a card (put a token from your ID, next to the deck), click two run HQ (place the second token in line with HQ on your side of the board), click three play a Clone Chip (place a token on the Clone Chip), click four take a credit (put the last token with your money pile).
This way you can see where your clicks have been spent quite clearly.
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Exactly. I think it works well.
I’m going to take chess pieces to the next Netrunner meetup and see if this works out for me.
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Speaking from my own experience, I religiously track both Runner and Corp clicks as I play. I’m also vocal about what I’m doing and repeat back what my opponent has just done. In addition, I try and maintain the board state by asking them, " Did you get your ETF credit?" or " Don’t forget your Desperado credit". If they do some Hailey Sharper BS that was done too fast, I don’t feel guilty asking them to walk me through the multiple triggers again. So far I’ve caught mistakes and they’re solved without much fuss.
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So basically, people just need to reread the rule book. I hereby offer my services as judge in any tournament I’m at, ever. Also, in the Game of Thrones lcg the non optional triggers were exactly that, and they couldn’t be skipped, so I don’t know why the rules aren’t like that for Netrunner.
I’m thoroughly convinced you can take extra creds/clicks once a game and have it go unnoticed. People get so laser-focused on their own board state.
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My comrade at the shop used chess pieces, but he was also playing Reina and the chess breakers. 
I blame the tournament rules & structure, it’s still far from perfect.
Especially best of 3 in higher tournament seats (to equalize misplays and less concentration) is what I’m missing.
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If you’ve never used chess pieces for the Caissa suite, you should try it. It’s the best feeling in the world, and it’s so much more helpful to have the programs on your side of the board, and the actual pieces on the ice.
That is also a classical error, installing a program when you really didn’t have the mem for it because you have programs on ice (para, knight etc).
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What do you care if there are misplays? It is the players’ responsibility to maintain a legal board-state and if they fail to so then neither of them has a right to complain. When you play, feel free to catch all of your own and your opponent’s misplays. As long it doesn’t happen in your own games, it’s frankly none of your business.
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I’ve watched a lot of games online over the past year and I have to admit I don’t see a ton of errors. I see SOME, but not to the level that it seems like a crisis. Games of this type have errors, especially with the trigger ever stuff that happens in almost all games.
One thing to keep in mind is that it may seem like there are a lot of misplays in videos due to an issue of sample size. Most of the recent videos on Stimhack are from one channel, and that channel is currently posting videos from a GNK tournament that just tracked the top table, and the same person was at the top table for most of the day. So really, what you’re doing is watching a series of videos that feature one person, and it’s possible the person you are watching has a tendency to make mistakes, or isn’t as vigilant about tracking things as he needs to be. So if you watch 4 videos in a row featuring one person, and that one person makes mistakes, it may feel like “oh man all these videos are coming out with misplays” when really it’s due to one person on one particular day.
That doesn’t excuse the need for better board state management on the part of both players, but it may explain why you feel like there are “misplays galore”.
Also, I don’t know why you keep asking where the judges are. Even at Worlds, there were usually not more than one or two games being watched by a judge, and even they only would catch maybe 10% of the round at best. It’s impractical for every game to be monitored by a judge in its entirety, so blaming them for mistakes isn’t really reasonable anyway. At GNK tournaments like in the video in question, there usually aren’t judges at all since it’s so casual – everyone is just playing the game. Someone might set up a camera, press record, and then walk away until the end of the tournament, so there’s no one watching the game other than the players themselves.
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I also watch (way too) many netrunner videos across several Youtube channels and, my impression is that there are misplays but really not that high a percentage. Across the 100+ clicks in a typical game (both sides), there might a few in a game and, often, none. And that’s just clicks, all the things that happen on a run would greatly increase the potential-misplay count. It wouldn’t surprise me if we’re talking 1% or less of these potential misplays actually happen. I would advocate strongly against pushing for more judges (is that practical? there’re usually volunteers who’d rather play ) or more harsher penalties. I feel the latter would be an especially bad mistake for the community – tournaments are already intimidating enough for relative newcomers to the game, now they’re under the threat of DQ for every mistake?
The OP did say to forget he ever mentioned MtG but his experience with it is clearly coloring his reaction to these videos. I think it is pertinent to point out that MtG’s complexity is heavily frontloaded into the deck building; most decks end up pretty easy to play, and many are essentially autopilot. The two games also have completely different communities in terms of competitiveness and social toxicity, and I think all this combines to put these two games as far apart as two games can possibly be when it comes to opportunities for and allowance of misplays.
One other thing, it seems like 90% or more of YouTube comments about misplays are either the commenter being wrong about a rule, misreading the board, or missing a shortcut that the player both understood irl.
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It’s always weird to me when my opponent is looking at their hand during my entire turn. A lot of people do it though. I personally put my hand down and pay attention to my opponents turn. It’s not uncommon for me to ‘make’ a few credits each game for my opponent, between ETF dividends, Kate discounts, and Desperado credits ^____^
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I don’t know how you’re defining “many” when you say “so many misplays.” But in my experience you only see a 1 credit or 1 click mistake maybe once per game (maybe). That’s not a bad percentage even if you assume that a game of Netrunner might have 20 turns per player (so 80 runner clicks, 60 corp clicks). One or two missed clicks in a game still means 99%+ of the clicks are played correctly. Now compare this 99% to professional sports officiating where there are teams of paid officials for each game, instant replays from dozens of angles, and millions of people watching. In NBA basketball the refs are only correct between 86%-90% of the time. Sports games are constantly decided by a single score…and so much is on the line in every game.
This misplay “problem” doesn’t seem like a real problem to me. Just a bit of human error that we shouldn’t get bent out of shape about.
Here’s an interesting article about NBA officiating accuracy for reference: In close games, how often do NBA referees get it right? - The Boston Globe
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Amen to that. One of the easiest ways to get better at netrunner is to watch what you do more closely. You’ll find yourself with more credits and clicks and cards right away!
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