Can I ask what the main line combo is for only 2 Jacksons?
This one has 3 but is still missing an advancement on the 5/3. I fail to see how you can get the extra click without a 3rd install in hand, (replace an interns with biotic so you can play the card from hand and use the other click to advance, or, alternatively, have all 5 installs in hand and replace an interns with a 2nd mirrormorph). That requires 4/5 of your installs in hand, meaning 2 jacksons and both agendas or all 3 jacksons and one of the agendas. You could also just have all 3 Diagnostics and save the click by not having to rec order them.
Futhermore, the other combo only requires one jackson in hand as long as you also have 2 agendas, so that’s not quite an improvement.
As far as the list is concerned, you don’t need 2 cvs. You can fire the one cvs and then score both agendas before the runner has a window to recur clot.
Combo II is the one that only requires two AD/jackson (and only one Jackson in hand). I wanted to explain Combo I first as it is closer to the traditional combo.
Combo II (see lower in the netrunnerdb explanation)
Biotic
Biotic (3x biotic in deck)
SfMM
Shutdown
AD -> SfMM/Interns, SfSS x 2
AD -> SfSS x 3
Advance (to score the 5/3)
Nothing magic, nothing special.
Edited to add the following:
I’m not sure this is much of an improvement on the hand requirements, but flexibility is good. The hard reqirements are:
1x jackson
3 of (5/3, 6/4, Jackson)
2x biotic (ouch)
2x AD
I’d imagine this is mostly useful when you’re Jackson starved. I don’t mean to claim that this is a staggering improvement. Just another path.
Fair point. I’m not sure I know all ins and outs of it. I enjoy the possibility of Jacksoning in agendas against Noise, and still being able to combo out…or at least have the, likely unrealistic, threat of comboing out.
Edit, add:
I see the main difference with the established combo being that you are so agenda-light that you can fit other things. I think this will be a win with GFI.
They’re only really there for consistency. You want to SfMM them out, so they have to be in hand. Two makes you get the combo with them earlier. That said, in a tournament, I needed them exactly zero times, so 1x sounds good to me.
I forgot about 3x Biotic, which definitely makes the extra click a whole lot easier. EBC also helps tutor a Jackson as well as possibly getting them to make a run.
I’d like to see the expected R&D accesses to win stat for these agenda comps: 1x food, 3x pri req, 2x vanity, (I think cutting a shutdown might not be worth 2 food), your proposed: 3x food 1x hades 2x vanity, and what I want to do in the other version, 1x food 1x hades 3x effcom 3x beta 1x vitru, (cutting a sfss since you never actually need 3).
I suspect this version generally takes a longer time to combo off, but the freed up influence from kaguya could make it worthwhile if you can jam these EBCs to bring consistency up par while possibly having a less vulnerable agenda package, (though you might only be able to do one of the two).
Another potential issue with this deck is that without the full 3 food, if an opponent steals a Vanity, they can potentially just stop running for a very long time expecting to be able to win off only one more agenda. This leads me to want to only really consider the 3 food 2 PS version. Unfortunately, there’s no good way to tutor PS, (one trick the old deck could use to tutor is Biotic Shutdown Archived to tutor, maybe it’s worth playing Archived in this deck also for that reason, though it can’t tutor PS itself).
Just a note, based on your example you need at least 1 more SfMM or the 4th installable (JHs, 6/4, 5/3) in hand to do this combo. (And Power Shutdown, to be complete.)
Also in a very expensive manner the combo can be done with 2xAD, PS, 3 of 4 installables, SfMM and 1 Biotic Labour in hand.
BL
SfMM
PS
Sac JH and AD → RO(BL), Interns for last installable, SfSS
3xBL
Sac JH and AD → 3xSfSS
Advance 3 times to score remaining agenda
Credit cost: 24(!)
Though quite a bit less flexible, this combo can drop a SfSS if it relies on interning a 5/3 on the 3rd AD. That would free up influence to take it to 2 GFI.
Biotic
SfMM → Jackson, Jackson, 6/4
PS
AD → SfSS, RO (AD), Biotic
AD → SfSS, SfSS, Interns (jackson)
AD → Interns (5/3), SfSS, SfSS
Advance
Not much room for wiggle. But it would work. Of course the interns can be replaced with SfSS if appropriate.
Why do all the versions of the 7 point do 1 archived, 1 reclamation order? Why not 2 RO? It hasn’t been uncommon to want more than one jackson back. I would expect the possible utility of a RO would be better than the click saved for Archived. What am I missing?
Edit: I was misunderstanding what you were saying here. Got it now. Thanks.
Yes, thank you, I think I forgot the SfMM requirement. I think that a 3rd is needed in the deck.
True story on the super biotics. On that note, if it is too awkward to drop the SfSSs from your hand and you find you need to combo out, the SfSSs can be replaced in their first AD with Biotics. The extra clicks are used for the SfSSs that are thing accessible to the next jackson.
As you pointed out, the main problem here is the monies.
Personally when ready to score and with a surplus Jackson Howard in hand, I prefer to install Jackson to draw more cards. That way either the Runner lets me draw more cards to set up the combo, or run to trash which activates Power Shutdown. It’s also another way of discarding SfSS-es from hand.
edit
I just realised this method becomes a lot more feasible now that you have the option to score with only 2 Jacksons and ADs.
I would probably play with 3 food / 2 Vanity / 2 vitruvius instead of your agenda composition. Have to remove Bootcamp + 1x Power Shutdown to do that.
The reasoning behind that agenda distribution is that with the 6 agendas distribution, if the runner is a bit lucky, they can win with just stealing you 2 agendas if they hit a vanity project and any other agenda. With my agenda composition, at worst case scenario for the runner, they have to steal 4 agenda and most of the time they have to steal at least 3 even if they hit a vanity project when you only need to score 2 yourself.
Because Biotic Labour + Archived Memories allows you to tutor without having to use an AD slot which reduces the cards-in-hand requirements by a bit. It’s just more expensive. This type of deck has always been about the balance between card draw and credits.
The runner can score a VP and a GFI and not win. The only way to win with two agendas is to get 2 out of Hades, VP, VP. This is possible, but unlikely. That said, your composition certainly takes the risk of the runner winning after 2 agendas down to zero. If a slot can be found for the extra Vitruvius, this is certainly an option. You might also consider 2 GFI, 2 VP, 3 vitruvius as influence is tight. However, this makes it more difficult to combo out when you need the bigger agendas in hand. On the plus side, it makes it easier to score out if you have to.
Yeah, i think the best part is that you can -1 EBC, -1 SfSS, and keep the Shutdown for consistency. It makes scoring out with only two AD/Jacksons more expensive as you have to replace a SfSS with a Biotic. Likely as +1 Archived given the discussion above.
I didn’t include the 2 SfSS case in the description. Sorry, that is outdated. I’ll update it when I have time.
For the time being, an example score out with only two SfSS (with some loss of flexibility) follows (see above in the discussion):
You simply front-load a SfSS, replacing a SfMM or Interns. If you want to score out with only two AD/Jacksons, you have to replace what was previously a SfSS with a Biotic. This does make it more expensive (around 16 credits instead of 12).
In writing this, I think that the main problem with the 2x SfSS version is that it gets expensive quick if you only have a single Jackson in hand, or no SfMM in hand (21 credits, I believe). The two Jackson/AD version, or one in which you don’t have a SfMM in hand also goes up in price as the third AD has to have a Biotic with an extra couple of advancements. Other than these exceptions, slotting a SfSS in the first AD isn’t too prohibitive.
Any opinions on if these increases in in-hand requirements are worth the increased assurance that you get by effectively forcing the runner to score three agendas (the only exception being if they score both VP)?
Sorry all for posting so much. I just realized another benefit of going down to 2 SfSS. With the two open influence, instead of GFI, we can play Cerebral Static (CS) to actually allow wins against Noise if he is prevalent in your meta.
So how prevalent is Noise in your meta? The answer informs your decision…choose two:
Very low probability that the runner will need to score fewer than 3 agendas (i.e. choose Global Food Initiative)
High probability you’ll find your key combo piece quickly (i.e. choose Power Shutdown)
Resiliency to Noise (i.e. choose Cerebral Static)
The combo deck doesn’t have to be auto-lose against Noise. Leela doesn’t matter vs this deck. CVS solves clot. Can the combo really have no auto-loses (aside from Donut…Snatch and Grab new meta)?
It’s also another way of discarding SfSS-es from hand.