Well, maybe the next step for sucker andy is to bring some stealth breakers in. Like the switchblade build that won a regional recently.
I donât think the breakers are the problem. Certainly the efficiency of the anarch breaker suite seems to pretty high, if the current crop of top tier val/maxx decks are anything to go by (not including the eater/keyhole versions obviously). I think its econ that struggles in the current meta. So i dug out my leela list for last nights meetup and got some games in against RP, security testing + desperado as a form of econ just dies in that matchup, as soon as they have ICE for each central.
If your going to start importing stealth cards, id be tempted to go all in on them and include cloak and refractor as well. At least this way, sec testing can get turned back on somewhat as you can use recurring stealth credits to get the successful run. But by that point, its not andy sucker anymore.
Im not as experienced a player as most of the people in this thread by any stretch of the imagination, so i could be way off here, but this was my observation from testing.
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Switchblade + Sucker andy is really strong.
I played @SamRS swichblade sucker andy a lot between the SHL2 and 3 and it made great results.
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You lose a lot of econ slots to play the Silencers though. Given the Code Gate focus with the current iterations of RP, is Switchblade worth it?
Very possibly, if youâre able to do Yogsucker plus something to deal with Lotus Field. After all, the sentry focus was there to tax out Mimic and Femme builds because Code Gates werenât reliable long-term, and the code gate swap is to try avoiding Switchblade now that Yog is falling out of fashion.
If it comes down to it, could import Refractor, if youâve already got Ghost Runners and Cloaks may not need so many Lockpicks to make it useful, and itâs always good against gear-check code gates like Enigma or Quandary, and is close to as cheap a Tollbooth run as it gets.
If youâre set up quickly and run often the âlostâ econ slots more than pay for themselves over the course of the game, especially since you can turn the recurring credits into real ones by Security Testing through even a moderately defended server at no actual cost if you have the recurring credits spare for the turn. If youâre managing to do that with a datasucker, too (though wow, the MUs on thatâd be rough) then youâre rolling in happy.
I mean, thatâs a lotta influence at that point and Crim doesnât have any in-faction R&D pressure (though Shaperâs HQ pressure is normally pretty limited anyway). Still doable: 1 Refractor, 2 Cloaks, 1 Lockpick, 2 Datasuckers = 5 influence left for parasites or RDI or memchips or more lockpicks or a third cloak or whatever you want.
Strenght of yog builds are the 0cred to break. Stealth is quite similar but you cant make morz than a single encounter per ice subtype per turn. I ve never played andy stealth, but i m gonna tfy this with sucker support instead of cloak (mu)
I consider it more a response to the popularity of Kate decks and their reliance on Cyber-Cypher and Parasite.
Stealth decks are nowhere near as popular as Kate.
Iâve been testing andysucker with parasite in SHL4. I think it sucks. Every corp thatâs not NEH is packing crisiums now, and zu + 2 suckers versus yog + 3 suckers + passport both have major problems that smart corps will exploit (tried it both ways). As long as thereâs a crisium installed itâs impossible to have explosive turns with double siphon or emergency shutdown, so once you fall behind, you stay there. The HB rush deck is probably its only good matchup.
Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie (Humanityâs Shadow)
Event (17)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
1x Inside Job (Core Set)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
Hardware (5)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) â˘â˘â˘â˘
Resource (11)
1x Kati Jones (Humanityâs Shadow)
2x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
1x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
1x John Masanori (Opening Moves)
3x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
3x Earthrise Hotel (The Source)
Icebreaker (7)
1x Corroder (Core Set) â˘â˘
1x Mimic (Core Set) â˘
1x Yog.0 (Core Set) â˘
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
2x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
Program (5)
3x Datasucker (Core Set) â˘â˘â˘
2x Parasite (Core Set) â˘â˘â˘â˘
15 influence spent (maximum 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Source
I think Andyâs ability is less good now because having a blazing fast turn 1 or 2 is less important now that corps have such a good early game. It doesnât make up anymore for how much weaker her midgame is than kateâs, and kate can move to the late game sooner.
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I was having very rough times as Andy myself in testing. It just seemed harder. It definitely feels like itâs the Anarch + Kate era at the moment. Hopefully Blue will get some nice disruption soon, and maybe some more strong ID abilities. They canât lean on the power of siphon anymore.
To necro the thread slightly, I took an Andysucker to UK Nats this weekend and went 10 - 3 with it, with 2 of the losses being to 6 agenda Blue Sun kill decks.
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After accumulating a few good finishes with Andy over the past months, I feel confident/qualified enough to contribute to this conversation. I got T4 in SHL3, T8 in the SSCI, and just went undefeated on runner side in an 89 person regional for a 1st seed swiss, 1st place overall finish, all with the same Andy deck.
I definitely felt that PPVP Kate was the deck to beat going into regionals, but I had been playing crim. so long that I didnât feel like I would benefit from trying to learn PPVP before a major event. I also didnât feel like my Andy had any glaring weaknesses that would be solved by switching to PPVP (in my heavily biased opinion.)
Yeah, I donât know if you mean Andy/sucker in general sucks, or that parasites suck, but if itâs the latter than I agree; I donât think parasites are the correct use of influence.
This seems overly dramatic to me. I do have games where I fall behind in tempo, but that happens to literally every deck in the game at one point or another. I really donât think paying to trash Crisium equates to âfalling behind and staying there,â you just trash it and move on (or leave it and focus on R&D; your entire game plan should not depend on being able to land siphons.)
Iâm not sure the point is to be âblazing fast,â itâs more about the inherent consistency of starting with 4 extra cards. I understand how that ability would be more essential if you were trying to race the corp, but I donât think it suddenly becomes worse just because youâre not playing against a super fast corp.
I understand the late game economic comparisons to a post-Levy Kate deck, and I think youâre correct in saying that it will make more money overall than late game Andy.
Yeah, again I donât know if you mean this in regards to the parasite version or the deck in general, but Andy has more favorable matchups besides HB rush.
Yeah, Iâve found you generally have to dedicate way more slots to econ in Andy than you do in PPVP. I donât really see that as a huge problem though, Iâm happy to do it. You also know that you can put Security Testing on a remote and run it after you make an access/siphon run on a central, right?
@Websterâs finish in Atlanta would seem to support this is the best configuration. I was never big on the idea of giving 3 slots to silencer, but I will definitely concede that Andy has super inefficient breakers compared to PPVP. I think the biggest game-by-game weakness of the deck is repeatedly running through large codegates (Turing, Viktor 2, Booth.) What I wouldnât give for a Cyber-Cypher in AndyâŚ
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[quote=âNobo715, post:52, topic:3765â]I really donât think paying to trash Crisium equates to âfalling behind and staying there,â you just trash it and move on (or leave it and focus on R&D; your entire game plan should not depend on being able to land siphons.)
[/quote]
But would you pack less than 3 siphons? Probably not. So in Crisium Grid matchups you have 3 semi-dead cards. Are you using Emergency Shutdown? More dead cards.
Crisium Grid isnât untrashable.
I heard crim play real breakers, you know, who let you access cards.
Also, some time they play Sneakdoor which is arguably a good card to remove the crisium grid.
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Yes we can trash Crisium Grid, but that kind of defeats some of the advantages of playing siphon in the first place? To make them rezz ICE, for the credit swing or just to make them lose credits. HQ is going to be ICEâd more than against other runners already so the notion of running HQ (without gaining Desperado Credit and/or Suckers) to trash CG for 5 just so I can play the good cards isnât appealing.
P.S.: Not necessarily talking about Sneakdoor.
SO your plan is not to run HQ ever again if they have a crisium?
Basically every other deck runs HQ for accesses without successful run bonuses sometimes. Being like that for 1 click is hardly a big problem.
I would obviously trash CG if I depended on quality HQ access. But I am currently not playing Criminals (stopped after the SCs). Every other faction is better positioned for the meta imo.
Shutdown heavy criminal is very well positioned right now. Lots of big ice floating around.
Shhhhhhhhhh! Iâm playing a ice cheating HB deck!