BaBW's use cases now that BS exists

Indeed you are correct.

That’s why we see so many Weyland glaciers doing so well and not any Red/Dead Coats at all…

Around here there are zero of either, so I’m not sure which would be better if good players were trying them.

Competitive corp decks in my area are solely NEH FA and RP Glacier, with the occasional Cambridge PE.

Well, I’m not sure what constitues of “around here”, but if you take a look here, you’ll find plenty of HB Glacier winners.

My gut feel is that any scoring package that emphasizes the role of credits will emphasize an advantage for BS over BWBI.

So, I would look at more posted bounties vs SEA.

I wonder about your ice selection.
I would say that the big advantage of wendigo/changeling is work compression on the runner. You need fewer cards in order to create a scoring window. Wendigo addititionally gives you AI protection.

When I run Wendigo/Changeling, I like using matrix analyzer so I can adaptively change the ice (and or advance an ice wall). You might try that.

It is my opinion that the Weyland agendas offer sufficient economy that one may be able to craft an effective deck, that doesn’t rely on the BS economic advantage.

I concur with others however that BWBI you need to increase the number of transactions.

Looking at GLC vs BLC - you gain the same +1 transaction while having fewer cards.
MFC is a hedge fund in BWBI’s hands.
Consider possibly Paywall, DivPort, and Commercialization. Div Portfolio would require a horizontal/asset strategy (such as mirrormorph).

Finally, I love the card Crisium grid - but you are not leveraging it. For example, an off the grid in combination with crisium would require the runner to run hq 2x before it was possible to trash off the grid.

If you are going to create a HQ fortress and If you were going to significantly invest in GLC / BLC you might find research station to be useful.

As an aside, (not for this deck) howler is usually an effective card for making successful demonstration stick.

I’m probably going to bring something like this to Worlds, so I changed a few things, but it’s basically this. Once Lycan comes out, that’s going straight in in place of grim and rototurret, and I might want to put in Wormhole as well.

BABW>BS

Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core Set)

Agenda (9)

Asset (2)

Upgrade (5)

Operation (18)

Barrier (5)

Code Gate (6)

Sentry (4)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Up and Over

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

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I am sitting here, staring at my screen in disbelief. How in the world did you arrive at this? I even went as far as to specifically say BS doesn’t actually make more money.

The whole point of this thread is “what are the strategies that benefit less from BS than from other IDs?”, with the addendum that I’m interested in the Core ID specifically.

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Surely you’ll want some advancable non agendas to provoke runs on will o? Either way this looks devilishly fun. I’m going to try something similar tonight.

@PeekaySK
I starting thinking about your deck/thoughts on how to get BaBW to work (in light of BS). I think you’re right in saying that even more so now that you have to lean on operation econ to make it worth it.

So if that’s the case what does it look like taken to the fullest extent?

3X hedge fund
3X beanstalk royalties
3X restructure
3X GLC ***
3X BLC ******
3X MRF ***
2X commercialization (see later)

Next what can BaBW do better than BS? Well in BS I know that I would never want to bounce my advanced ice back (if I had any) so I say lets go from there.

3X ice wall
3X wendigo
3X changling
1X swarm (don’t rez unless it’s devastating)

Continuing with the idea I don’t want to bounce my ice back…

1X archer
3X chimera

Now an ice do go along with your wanting money on the runners turn

1X caduceus (mainly filler)

Continuing to go with you’re route for deck building (clean/no bp)

3X NAPD
3X project atlas
3X government contracts

I feel going 3X on GC allows for consistency as well as playing to the strengths BaBW has over BS, as BS is very click intensive.

As I see it we are on our way to a classic rush deck as things continued to be refined. Score with the pesky morph/mythic ice early while advancing others to increase tax as the game lengthens.

2X Simone Diego (help with advancing cost)
3X corporate troubleshooter (force an agenda through/nasty sentry) ***

To me seems ok not great, no real fancy tricks. Mainly how fast can you go?

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I don’t think the concepts of “advanceable ice” and “go fast” fit together very well. The Root would probably be better than Simone as a general economy option.

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Wendigo/changling obviously dont get advanced more than a couple times. The way I see it you can only go fast (rush) for so long until the runner has his rig which at that point you need to start increasing the tax.

As for the root vs simone I liked the upgrade aspect. I know it’s not amazing but this is one train of thought how BaBW is better

As I said, it’s the impression I got. You keep comparing BABW to BS and trying to find where it will be better. Why now? Nothing has changed for BABW recently to make any difference in the way it would perform.

It’s still inferior glacier to ETF and RP, and supermodernism is still bad at things it was bad before.

My conclusion was that you figured “Well, if BS is so good, why can’t BABW be at least somewhat closely good as BS. Let’s try to make it like that”.

Again, just my impression, I might be completely wrong.

@Xavi I think one of the things you definitely need in a BaBW deck is a way to leverage your (hopefully) disgustingly large piles of cash into a win condition (or at least into a scoring window). My preferred way was Ash, but @xerxes might be right in that a heavy program trash coupled with Troubleshooters is actually better. It’s definitely less influence-intensive, at the very least… which seems better since so much of the available influence is eaten up by the transactions.

@Stiv, I see where you’re coming from, but it doesn’t seem like you’re seeing the whole picture. To me it feels like in this cycle alone, Weyland has gotten more interesting cards than in the two previous ones combined. Taurus, Crisium Grid, Wendigo, Changeling - hell, even Paywall Implementation… those are all cards that are playable and useful, and not at all tied to what BS does best. So yeah, things have changed for BABW recently - they got some actually playable ICE, instead of wallpaper like Salvage and Woodcutter.

Agreed. Hence, I’m asking “Is there anything else besides glacier and supermodernism you can do with it?”

You can play OAI on a smaller ice, like hive, just as well. Also some runners can get through a 2 deep remote early on, let it be GRNDL or BS. True, overall the % of times GRNDL can pull of an early overscored Atlas will be higher than the % of times BS can pull it of. But really, your game plan needs to be bigger than scoring that Atlas, as most of the time GRNDL got stuck on a couple of agenda points, with the runner having a full rig and enough bad pub to run everywhere.

It’s as Stiv said, the economic advantage of BS is just icing on the cake. But even this economic advantage is bigger than (or about as big as) what the other id’s bring.

I think Blue Level Clearance is a trap card for BABW. Sure, it’s nice to have, but now you have 6 influence less to build your deck with, and you’re already spending 6 on Jackson and GLC, which are both higher priorities. BABW already has 12 deck slots dedicated to transaction operations - it’s not going to get much better by dedicating even more to pure economy, unless the card has some other synergistic effect that you want. I don’t really see any othe the other transactions available making the cut right now. Maybe Paywall, if you play with a low number of agendas, so you don’t lose it to random R&D accesses too early.

I think a better direction to go is to build (or design future cards for BABW) around recursion for your transactions, preferably influence-neutral. Unfortunately, there’s not much there to go on yet. Hades Fragment is a definite pick; you can get your transactions back into the deck, and you’ll sooner or later reshuffle it with Jackson or Atlas tokens. Unfortunately, a one-of 5/3 agenda isn’t the most reliable trick to deck-build around, even with Atlas.

See, I’m going the other way around on this - I think GLC is less important than BLC, and usually cut the smaller one first. The problem with Hades isn’t necessarily that it’s a 1-of (Atlas, Fast Track), it’s more that it takes both a lot of time and tutoring/reshuffling to start working :frowning:

I still can’t decide whether the way to go is clean or dirty. NAPD is so strong… but is it worth losing Archers over?

Archer is good enough to Sac a non-1 pointer to. Also, people play around Archers more if you score 1 pointers.

For everyone’s information, my deck was garbage in its Worlds configuration. I went 1-6 with it. For comparison, the HBFA deck I made for my sister was 6-1, and she had never played with it before, and my Nasir deck went 3-4 with 6 points every time it lost. I might do a bigger post about what I learned later, but yeah, don’t copy that deck.

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I think people should seriously consider Medical Research Fundraiser over GLC in BaBW. It’s 1 influence and a transaction. And it turns 3 credits into 9. Sure, it gives the runner some money too, but what is he going to do with it if you keep trashing his breakers?

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It takes up extremely valuable influence, and it’s really hard to “keep trashing his breakers”, even with 3 Will-O-Wisp, 3 Power Shutdown, 3 Rototurret, 2 Grim, and 2 Corporate Troubleshooter.

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The new agenda where W scores 1 credit for every credit in the runner’s pool seems to beg for MFC.

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