Sure, I agree Nexus Kate will be a better matchup, but Crim gets worse, with Sneakdoor and even Inside Job causing problems.
Noise is still iffy as is anything with D4VID and you also lose the ability to leverage Oaktown, which is really one of the only good cards to print in Weyland for a very long time.
Maybe, but the D4v1ds make OAI curtain walls sad.
Reviving an old topic since Fear the Masses dropped and the meta’s changed a lot. Does Navi Mumbai City Grid make this archetype stronger? I’m still trying it out, but it seems to be decent vs Shaper (SMC, Clone Chip, Artist Colony) and Anarch (Datasucker, D4V1D). The anti-D4V1D tech really seems to help with OAI efforts. I’ve also had multiple Shapers faceplant into Archer thinking they were safe with SMC out. Seems like it has potential. Thoughts?
IMO the decks issue are late game versus Shaper, not early. The same goes for Anarch. I could routinely get early scores versus Kates and Whizzards, even get to 5 points, but once their engines are up it becomes very difficult to break RND lock and to survive ICE destruction, respectively. BS Glacier is still risky in a red meta IMO. You can win games versus good Shaper players and the games are always very enjoyable and tense. Criminal match up is still fine besides multiple early Gang Signs.
It’s kinda underwhelming. To fit a couple in you have to make 4 inf worth of room, which can be hard. In my testing it’s pretty good against Whizz, because making him faceplant into an Archer or an Orion is usually pretty good (plus it can often make him unable to get into a server for a score). Against Shaper (as @moistloaf noted) it’s okay early game, but basically blank late game. Late game they’re already set up, and if they’re worried about a face-down Archer they can just tutor up their Sharpshooter before they start the run. Navi is usually entirely worthless against Criminal, but Criminal is usually entirely worthless against BS anyhow, so that’s fine. The deck can have a hard time against Au Revoire Andy, since she’s pretty good against most glacier decks, but Navi doesn’t usually much vs this anyhow.
Last point, playing BS Glacier in an Employee Strike meta is the definition of ballsy. A better word may be irresponsible. A well-timed Strike can be nearly impossible to overcome.
Bringing this thread back from the dead as this is one of my favorite corp archetypes of all time. I was never a great pilot (I suspect few were) but I always had a blast playing it. Anyone got any fresh ideas of what Blue Sun glacier might look like post rotation? I suspect without Jackson and Oversight AI this archetype lost too much to truly be competitive. However, Tithonium is a very interesting piece of ice for Blue Sun that might be able to serve as an ok replacement?
I’ll throw out a list that I threw together and have played maybe 5 or 6 times. Seems to do ok, but the ice suite is probably wrong.
Tithonium Sun
Blue Sun: Powering the Future (Up and Over)
Agenda (11)
1x Corporate Sales Team (Business First)
2x Global Food Initiative (Data and Destiny) ●●
3x Oaktown Renovation (Chrome City)
3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
2x Standoff (Blood and Water)
Asset (7)
2x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains)
1x Marilyn Campaign (Terminal Directive) ●
3x Public Support (The Universe of Tomorrow)
1x Whampoa Reclamation (Blood and Water) ●●
Upgrade (2)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ●●●●
Operation (12)
1x Archived Memories (Revised Core Set) ●●
1x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x IPO (Terminal Directive)
3x Preemptive Action i[/i]
1x Scarcity of Resources i[/i]
Barrier (7)
2x Chiyashi i[/i] ●●●●
2x Hive (Double Time)
3x Tithonium (Free Mars)
Code Gate (5)
3x Hortum (Terminal Directive)
2x Mausolus (Martial Law)
Sentry (5)
2x Colossus (Terminal Directive)
3x Veritas i[/i]
15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Revised Core Set
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
How you gonna play boot camps and not adonis campaign
What is all this advanceble ICE doing in Blue Sun? Colussus, Hortum & Mausolus is to much for my taste! Hive becomes more and more useless during the game. So I don’t like the ICE composition and on top of that I ask myself where your Econ is? Hedge & IPO and 4 Agendas + Marilyn.
I was just thinking about Marilyn it’s a great piece of Econ, but in Blue Sun? Really? You can put Adonis back to hand with your ID ability.
I’m really missing the game plan in this deck or I can’t see it.
Well, Hive makes sense, since BS just picks it up later once it’s bad. It’s been a BS Glacier staple for ages. I hear you on the rest though. Playing things you actually want to advance isn’t amazing.
Without OAI, does blue sun really like big ice? I think you should look more at nasty face checks. You can still run expensive ice, of course. Making the runner play Spot the Braintrust can be fun.
I am also thinking about how Blue Sun is now meant to be played. Maybe a bit more like the shell game? I added Snares into my deck to bait a run - when the runner did not bite, I rez it and take it back to the hand. Then install a card - what is that now? So it’s a bit Jinteki-esque. Econ would be Marilyn, Adonis, Melange. And ICE that punishes face checks.
One idea I’ve been tossing around is space ice + boot camp and Red Planet Couriers. You can play the “Adonis or 5/3” shell game behind your big space ice, rez it for 0 or 2 with boot camp, and then bounce the ice after you RPC the counters off of it.
Probably too wombo combo-y to be good, but I bet it’d be fun.
That sounds really fun.
The ol’ Advanceable ICE Blue Sun plan sounds a little sketchy but I suppose I could see a valid plan of Priority Constructioning your terrifying remote and mainly bouncing your the ice on your centrals.
I suppose you could theoretically even get the INSANE VALUE of RPCing counters off a rezzed Wormhole and then bouncing the Wormhole for nine.
I think any effective Blue Sun deck is going to have to rely on a never-advance threat every turn, dragging the runner through a highly taxing remote endlessly. The main issue is that Project Atlas is the only 3/2 available, compared to classic Foodcoats that had access to both Project Vitruvius and Accelerated Beta Test. Possible solutions include RPC + Priority Construction, Jeeves, Oberth Protocol, and/or Biotic Labor/Shipment from Tennin/Trick of Light/Audacity.
With Oversight AI gone, bouncing ICE will be much rarer. Early game it’s nice to bounce expensive ice to maintain a threat on all servers, and occasionally you need a burst of credits, but it’s not an income source anymore. On the other hand, bouncing assets can get you value throughout the game. Even bouncing Whampoa Reclamation gets you value by letting you cycle out 2 cards without clogging the remote. Another issue is that there aren’t very many influence-free options for value assets, so they will likely eat up most of your influence.
The only possible exception to this would be Eliza’s Toybox, but I don’t think that’s proven a viable engine.
I wonder if Shipement from Tennin isn’t generally a good thing in a no-facecheck glacier.
With RPC, every agenda is a never advance threat.
I don’t really understand Blue Sun at all now… Most of the builds I’m seeing are focusing on scoring Standoffs in order to turn on “free” Tithoniums which can then be bounced back to hand… Or something? In practice, this seems like really dubious math. Scoring a Standoff costs you a card, three clicks, and two credits. You can rez the Tithonium free and potentially score a hit with it—if you’re lucky—but then if you bounce it back to your hand to gain 9, you are really only operating at Melange Mining Co levels of efficiency (and god forbid if you want to actually use that Tithonium for something else).
I did play against a Blue Sun deck recently that I think had the right idea. It was effectively a rush deck that tore down its remote once it became only minimally taxing to the runner (think Smoke) and used the Blue Sun burst credits to force a late game condition where credit advantage is important (e.g. Biotic Labor or SEA Source).
I do like the idea of recouping value from ice that it is now trivial for the runner to break but, again, I’m not sure we’re operating at levels of efficiency higher than Melange.
Drawing inspiration from the Red Planet Couriers idea, I’m working with this:
RPC Sun
Blue Sun: Powering the Future (Up and Over)
Agenda (9)
3x Corporate Sales Team (Business First)
3x Global Food Initiative (Data and Destiny) ●●●
3x Project Atlas (Revised Core Set)
Asset (11)
2x Adonis Campaign (Revised Core Set) ●●●●
3x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains)
1x Illegal Arms Factory (Terminal Directive)
3x Jeeves Model Bioroids (Salsette Island) ○○○○○ ○○○○
2x Marilyn Campaign (Terminal Directive) ●●
Operation (13)
1x Ark Lockdown i[/i] ●●
1x Biotic Labor (Revised Core Set) ●●●●
1x BOOM! i[/i]
2x Dedication Ceremony (Kala Ghoda)
3x Hedge Fund (Revised Core Set)
3x Priority Construction (Crimson Dust)
2x Red Planet Couriers (Earth’s Scion)
Barrier (5)
2x Bulwark i[/i]
1x Ice Wall (Revised Core Set)
1x Meru Mati (Breaker Bay)
1x Tithonium (Free Mars)
Code Gate (4)
1x Hortum (Terminal Directive)
3x Mausolus (Martial Law)
Sentry (5)
3x Colossus (Terminal Directive)
2x Veritas i[/i]
Other (2)
2x Mother Goddess i[/i]
15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Revised Core Set
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Getting an Atlas counter (usually via Jeeves click) can be huge. I’m sure there are optimizations to be made, but it does what it intends to do. Rush, then threaten the stacked remote every turn.