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[Blue Sun] Bootcamp Glacier


#565

Since you already cut Adonis, how about replace 2 EBC with 2 research station :wink:


#566

I’ll have to try it, that would synergize very well with the ashigaru. I still use ebc very often though to grab jacksons ,corporate town, or public support in the match ups where I need em (such as noise).


#567

I was half joking half serious. Research Station use to be my favorite Weyland card. I still think it is underated but I couldn’t find my cut for it. It allows me to include more “problem solving” card in the deck without worrying too much about what if I draw it too early and end up discarding it wishing it was the 2nd restructure or something. It also protects your agenda in hand.

Ashigaru is definitely a good bluesun ice. Very often I found myself considering Ashigaru or Wall of Thorns as alternatives in my ice choice. My concern is that since you still couldn’t rush out your agenda that fast, you will end up have to deal with all the david they can find. Using david for booth isn’t that bad for us since they still need to pay 3 and 1counter, meaning they can’t break CW/Archer anymore. Now if they end up using david purely on your big ice, I somehow feel like it makes it easier to break OAI combo, they just need to pay more.

I could see a couple ways Ashigaru doing a better job than booth, but 2x to replace adonis and 2booth ? I guess I will have to try. How do you find your econ situation? With only 1 restructure and 2launch, I’d image it’s pretty hard to rez ashigaru and defend it from sucker farm even with 2CVS in your deck.


#568

So how does this deck stack up against post MWL runners?

From the limited testing I have done recently it still seems to have the same problems:

Soft to D4VID
Noise with Faust and D4VID mean you can’t score safely
Slow to set up - if the runner gets too many points in early accesses it is very hard to get there

My only disclaimer is I’ve played a lot of these games against the Hayley Chameleon/Aesop deck and that does not seem like a winnable matchup.


#569

So far the deck feels reasonable, but not as reliable as ETF and RP glacier. D4v1d is only really an issue against Noise I think. Faust isn’t more of an issue for this deck as any other, IMO. Once you’re past the early game you can tax a serious amount of cards.

The deck is definitely slow to set-up, and can’t rush quite as effectively as Foodcoats can, IMO. Maybe that’s cause every time I try to rush, the Runner magically has the answer in their hand, probability-be-damned.

I’m not going to give up on it yet, but after playing blumcamp the past 2 weeks I sleeved up Foodcoats tonight, just in case.

Keep in mind I don’t consider myself a good Blue Sun player. I think blumcamp is the hardest of the big 3 glacier decks to pilot optimally, and I think to win consistently with it requires deeper understanding of your match-ups than is required by Foodcoats.

I’m kinda worried about Nexus Kate. Even if you rush as fast as possible, once Nexus is online (with Opus), I’m not sure what you can do to score agendas. Ash is effectively blank, as are Caduceus and Assassin. I think you have to be on at least 4 points before Nexus is online, preferably 5, and then rez Archer on your remote and try to drag the Runner through it as much as possible. Then again, what do I know. Maybe @maya has some answers for us.


#570

Nexus kate is probably impossible to beat.


#571

That’s why Project Junebug BOYS!


#572

The real anti-Nexus tech is Shattered Remains.


#573

Or slot in Underway Grid?


#574

Obviously you use Enforcer with the Twins.


#575

Shattered remains is a much better hate card. Underway grid will never be good, even at countering the abilities it specifically tries to hose. It’s just another one of those sad cards where they wasted a good ability by making it cost a card slot without also being able to end the run. I would seriously consider a shattered remains though.


#576

From my testing with it, I’ve yet too beat a Nexus Kate. Havn’t tried the shattered remains though, just curious to where to fit it in.


#577

I thought about getting shattered remains. But to score against that Kate, we have to give up tons of R&D access to her 3RDI. So it’s more likely she saw it in R&D before us. I also think it’s impossible to beat that Kate


#578

Got stomped more by Nexus Kate last night. I think I’m gonna practice Foodcoats instead of blumcamp for now. I can’t really think of the advantages bliumcamp has over Foodcoats, even after MWL. what does @maya think? Why run BS over ETF?


#579

BS is better vs Crims & Parasite. As far as I can tell, that’s about it.


#580

Honestly, a well played Nexus Kate should stomp Foodcoats too. It probably does have a better matchup than Bootcamp, though, mostly because of Caprice.

As for running Bootcamp over Foodcoats, I’ll leave that to blummy to answer. Vs Nexus Kate specifically, though, I couldn’t imagine there’s a reason.


#581

I mean, HB’s ice suite is pretty bad post-MWL, right? I’d rather be BS against any non-nexus kate and against any siphon blue or orange deck. Eater ddos max, for example. For normal anarch decks HB is probably better… but then I’d probably just go for NEH. IDK, BS has lots of bad matchups that HB does better at but I don’t think HB has any particularly good matchups at all anymore. Having loads of influence was always HB’s strength and now it doesn’t.


#582

I wonder if it’s worth looking at Off the Grid BS again, if Nexus is going to be a big threat. Maybe a hybrid of Bootcamp and dedicated OtG. HQ protection and Crisium stocks are rising with more Criminal and Eater. The biggest issue would be building one that doesn’t fold to Noise.


#583

If the problem is being unable to score out of remote safely, how does OTG help? If a runner can beat a BS remote with Ash, they sure as hell can run HQ twice and trash Crisium Grid. That’s not even considering all the additional weaknesses OTG brings (Sneakdoor).


#584

Against Faust and Nexus decks, the OTG setup helps immensely. They can only Nexus once a turn, Faust and Lady cry at going over Hives and Spiderwebs multiple times in a turn, and you can play around Sneakdoor. And OTG doesn’t rely on link, like Ash does.