I have absolutely no experience playing Blue Sun or playing against it so this is purely a hypothetical question but I was wondering if ELP would be a good splash. With both Grids up, the runner needs 3 runs to steal the agenda. Without Doppelganger, click enhancements or 3 run events, that’s the runner’s whole turn to get in.
Prireq is even more amazing in this build than it is in normal blue sun, because thanks to MNS, you have an extra click on the turn you score it to install an unrezzed ice of your choice.
I never liked eden fragment, and even with this deck that turtles on its centrals in the late game, still don’t. (I don’t often bounce ice from the central towers so don’t have to pay the install cost too often, and use the remote for fresh OAIs, sometimes protected by OTG but sometimes inviting the runner to spend $11 to kill it.) Hades fragment is also very slow, taking an extra turn after you score it to start paying off, but it can singlehandedly run away with the game against noise.
True… but also it means more than one whole corp turn to set it up (either ELP or OTG have to come a turn before you play MNS). So there are sometimes turns where the runner needs the first click to take 15 off kati, but I’d rather have the influence for archived mem.
Having finally had a chance to play with this list yesterday, the flexibility opened by Archived Memories cannot be overstated. I definitely think three copies is the right call.
What ice suite are you playing, without TB or lotus?
Being able to Punitive/Archive/Punitive off a 3 point steal is huge.
But so far my BS experience has been hard. I’m still getting into the hand of how you run Weyland in general. Part of it is making scoring windows for those money agendas they’re known for.
I know with Mushin No Shin, Jackson and Archived Memories you don’t have any influence to spare, but for a deck built on taxing runners, there is a glaring lack of Eli in this list.
@SyntaxLost That’s because Weyland has a lot of weaknesses, but “lack of taxing barriers” definitely isn’t one of them.
@bblum: I’m currently travelling and the deck is at home, so from memory:
- 2x Caduceus 1x Taurus 1x Changeling for sentries
- 2x Wendigo 2x Quandary for code gates
- 3x Hive 3x Ice Wall 3x Curtain Wall 2x Hadrian’s Wall for barriers
I really, really like Changeling in BS. Being able to move it to outermost after layering more ICE is huge.
@SyntaxLost: Eli is a waste of influence. Hive is far more taxing early game when Eli shines. Late game when Eli is a moderate tax for its cost, it’s far outclassed by big Weyland barriers.
You mean Wendigo right? Changeling doesn’t really get a benefit from being outermost. I do like Wendigo, but I don’t like the tension with Curtain Wall. And if I drop Curtain Wall, suddenly OAI becomes questionable.
What do you supplement your econ with if you cut OAI? Alternatively if you’re keeping the Curtain Walls in there, how often do you find yourself sad that you have Wendigo? Also, you have a higher ice count too, otherwise Wendigo not ending the run on its own could hurt. What are you cutting to fit in extra ice?
What did your list look like?
Wendigo makes a great argument for architect. I dig architect in this build as a wendigoed architect on HQ means you can recur a crisium grid in the middle of their second run to go trash your Off the Grid and it lets you set up your tower of power or your off the grid combo faster.
But honestly, the versatility of Archived Memories is probably the better bet for the same influence cost. Being able to threaten double punitives without an overscored atlas is huge, as is the ability to double down on a oversighted ai curtain wall or grab a used mushin/crisium/off the grid.
The Architect plays all sound great and all, but it will never actually play out in game.
Assuming your opponent is competent, there is no way they will allow a 3 str sentry to be unbroken in the turn they are going for your Grids. This means that Architect is good for a 2-4 cred tax, which is okay for its cost, but not worth spending influence for.
Early game, when Architect will actually fire, you are not in a position to leverage either subroutine. You are not NBN with SanSans and live Astros. Early on you just want more money, not free clicks to install ice/assets that you cannot rez yet.
I’m a big fan of the keystone archetype myself, and this is still my new favorite Weyland deck yet!
3x archived memories is SO GOOD, do not trick yourself into dropping any. Coupled with blue sun, its flexibility makes you utterly resilient to so many runner tactics.
I’m currently running HT’s, a couple archers, and 2x Wendigo, and each of them is performing at our above expectations, but overall I love the concept!
You are definitely right about the architect scenario. I have had some good luck with it, but admittedly its pretty corner case. The power of Archived is definitely better.
Have people completely dropped the Punitive package? I really like it right now in my agenda build. If you manage to get an atlas mushined out you can always threaten a triple punitive.
Or grab an oversight… or an agenda or a mushin to continue scoring stuff.
Hats off to you on this build. I really dig it. Its so different than any other Weyland build I have played.
Apparently Jesse Bluem went 6-1 with a Mushin No Shin Blue Sun deck during Worlds. It’ll be interesting to see the decklist.
Here’s the Blue Sun list from Worlds.
I’ll let you guys decide for yourselves, but I don’t think it has been tuned to be the best it can be. There are quite a few questionable choices and lots of room for additional polish.
Despite that, happy to see that the core idea has legs
Hopefully I don’t sound like a jerk here, because I love his podcast and he’s obviously a pro. He was given a bundle of favorable match ups. Four Anarchs, two being Quetzal, and only one Andy.
I think the deck has potential, but I wouldn’t get carried away with these results
Quetzal is a nightmare matchup, as are most Anarchs in general. My guess is he got the flatline wins in those games.
The main thing that sticks out about his list is he has a grand total of 5 ice he would be happy to have in his opening hand. To me, that’s simply not good enough, especially OAI is not always guaranteed to work out for you.
Often, I am forced to get an Off the Grid so I can drop it, and OAI a Curtain Wall. This allows me to get my huge credit swing safely, but at the expense of it coming mid game as opposed to on turn 1.
In other news, I am increasingly toying with cutting the Punitives. The 3rd Mushin is unnecessary, so the idea is to change the ice package to more mid-costed ice and away from Ice Wall/Enigma. This would be backed by 2 copies of Successful Demonstration, which I think is better in Blue Sun than a lot of other corp decks.
The agenda package would then change to 3 GoCo, 3 PriReq and 2 Hostiles. This allows a more flexible early game and most games against competent runners they will still install the Plascretes because you are playing green cards
Played against this deck at Worlds. I didn’t run; just built money and got Plas until I saw the first Mushin. Then, I was thinking, ‘Oh, sheeeeit. THIS deck!’.
Completely legit. I was his only loss. Think you guys missed the name, though. I would’ve named it something foolish like ‘Blushin No Grid (…actually, there are a ton of Grids)’, or something akin.
I … don’t understand how you could say Quetzal is a nightmare, or Anarch in general. Q without E3 breaks one piece of ice in the deck. Q with E3 is jank.
Dude said in his tournament report that he just dug for lotus field and scored behind it.
Anarch has no answer for Blue Sun right now. No David doesn’t cut it
It looks like an average between your original list and mine. The influence is the same as in mine, but the sentries are different and there’s no NAPD contract. I’m still not sure what the right sentry mix is, but I’m pretty sure corporate war instead of NAPD is wrong.
I ran 3x caduceus and 1x taurus as my sentries at my GNK yesterday (where the deck won all 3 of its games). I’m coming around to taurus – it’s bad early, but there was one game where it blew up 2 R&D interfaces, which is a nice selling point because it’s the only multiaccess that crisium doesn’t shut down.
On the whole, it’s great that someone had the courage to sleeve this up for worlds. The more I play this deck the more it seems like it might be the best blue sun build available.
I’ve thought about cutting the 3rd mushin. I would only consider putting a 2nd archived memories in its place (or if you already have 2 archived mem, then more TBs or lotuses). On the other hand, if you can assemble all 3 parts of the combo before the runner completes their rig, to score an early prireq, it’s basically impossible to lose. I don’t want to lock myself into needing to score overadvanced atlas early to find all the pieces.
What was the decklist you beat him with?