where’s the edge if outermost ice is always curtain’s wall? 
Still 3 creds less to break Hadrian. And if you don’t have curtain and forced to protect with hive+Hadrian, it makes the Hadrian cost 5 less to break.
A cred is a cred and everything who give you some discount help.
Sure, but if you’re breaking stuff with Snowball and Mimic, it’s not really an Atman deck is it?
Of course, it IS going to be extremely taxing any way you cut it. Also not having access to D4VID or Shutdown means it’s much easier to OAI Curtain Wall and gain a bunch of money.
As an aside, while the PPVP shell is very strong, and Snowball/Mimic is certainly the direction to go with in a world infested by NEH Architect, I prefer having access to D4VID, which doubles as Wraparound insurance. This requires a slight re-shuffling of the influence and dropping PPVP but that’s a discussion for another thread 
Yeah but nobody competitive play vanilla Atman deck anymore so why are we still talking about an archetype dead since a couple of month ? 
Really? I still think Atman is fine.
I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and post a list after all
Identity: Shapers: Kate “Mac” McCaffrey
Cards: 45 / 45
Influence: 15 / 15
Event (20)
3x Diesel
3x Dirty Laundry
3x Modded
2x Quality Time
3x Scavenge
3x Sure Gamble
3x Test Run
Hardware (9)
3x Clone Chip
2x CyberSolutions Mem Chip
1x HQInterface ●●
3x R&D Interface
Program (13)
2x Atman
1x D4v1d ●●●●
3x Datasucker ●●●
1x Deus X
1x Femme Fatale ●
1x Imp ●●●
1x Parasite ●●
2x Self-Modifying Code
1x Sharpshooter
Resource (3)
3x Kati Jones
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This list would clearly be better as Professor!
Love,
your resident Professor fetishist
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This thread was so good it actually made me sign in to the forums here for the first time. Just to say thanks!
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I’m considering this as an alternative to OTG, not a supplement. So it’s just three ice, an agenda, mirrormorph, and mushin.
I guess it’d work nicely with OTG and no mushin though. 1) install 2) triple ice 3) OTG.
And I’d switch the archive memories for it. on that subject, isn’t reclaimation order better? we can’t archive and mushin + otg/mm on the same turn anyways. Getting back two or three Restructurings sounds better than one.
I think the situations where you want to punitive twice needs Archived over Reclamation, along with the declaration and two clicks.
Archived Memories is definitely the right call. Reclamation Order can’t kill the runner when they have scored 3 pts and you only have a single PC. Archived Memories makes this possible. Archived Memories, OAI Curtain Wall is another play you can make in a single turn when the runner gives you a window.
Even if you manage to Restructure 3 times and Reclamation Order gives you maximum value, you likely will not have sufficient hand size to fully leverage this.
I haven’t played against this deck, but wouldn’t Sneakdoor completely shut it down? Sure you can Crisium both HQ and Archives, but then you are spreading yourself thin on ice. Emergency Shutdown hurts Blue Sun in general too.
I just say this because both of these cards are very popular in our meta. People are starting to realize that making a HQ only deck or a R&D dig deck is impractical, and that they need to be able to pressure all three centrals.
Sneakdoor does make the game harder. However you can just drop a Hadrian’s on Archives and be done with it. With this deck, you will have a lot of extra ice in the midgame. Runners with Sneakdoor are usually Criminal so they don’t have access to unlimited economy. You will eventually lock them out.
Emergency Shutdown does hurt but how are they getting into HQ? They would typically need Inside Job or Feint. Both of these cards are liabilities against NEH, so most Criminals have cut down the number they run. It’s not as big a deal because assuming you OAIed the ice, you really only spent 1 cred for it. They’re are no closer to breaking it so you’re okay with that.
Crisium counters Emergency Shutdown
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And Gabe’s ability too until they trash it
oh, punitive yeah. i agree, but not a fan of that route.
regarding general use, I don’t really see the addition of a click when you aren’t scoring anyways as being a huge issue. outside of punitive, i see its use here as economic. and reclaim on a single OAI, next turn or not, is still fine on something like a curtain wall. and archived in a single hedge or restructure is so-so imo.
As referenced in the Leela thread, Feint can REALLY hurt, as they get to bypass the first 2 ICE on HQ, pay 5 to trash the Crisium Grid, and get an HQ access, due to how the Grid and Feint interact.
Sneakdoor basically nullifies the advantage of the deck over vanilla Ash glacier, in that you start needing to rez two server’s worth of big ice to protect HQ and your remote. (With Ash, you only need a $3 tax on archives to nullify sec testing.) On the other hand, sneakdoor decks seem to like trashing their sneakdoor after a couple turns to make room for more breakers, so you at least get to pressure the runner to keep it around.
Is there a Lukas ruling on this? I don’t think it would. The text on ES is a play restriction rather than an ability.
Haven’t seen an official ruling, but seems obvious to me. :shrug:
You don’t get to trash OtG from Feint. You get to bypass their nasty ice, trash the Crisium, and access a card from HQ. Then you’ll need to SOT or run HQ again. So if you only have money for one HQ run, Feint will save your rear. If you don’t have money for a HQ run and Crisium trash but you have a SOT, Feint will similarly save your rear. As the runner of course.
In order for this deck to protect itself against Feint, you’ll need three layers of ice, all of which you can rez with the last one expensive enough for the runner to break that it ends the run. That is really hard to do, especially when you are running 14-16 pieces of ice.
In short, you better hope you aren’t facing Leela.
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Feint just exposes how terrible Curtain Wall is against criminal shenanigans.
Despite the 14-16 ice count, it’s not terribly hard to have 3 pieces of ice on HQ. It just means Curtain Wall can’t be used to protect HQ. Hopefully once the box comes out, there will be better ice to choose from.
Sneakdoor is annoying. It means you need a Hadrian’s or Curtain Wall over archives, preferably with a Crisium Grid on archives too. Criminals do not have the recurring economy to keep going through your ice. You will eventually tax them out of the game.
Are you suggesting it is worth just playing Ash and dropping Off the Grid?