Not sure if this is a fair comparison to other (more common) Scorch strategies. As a Runner, there is nothing you can do (outside of including certain cards in your deck) to avoid Wombo Combo. Same goes for Posted Bounty. if Weyland has a PB scored, there is nothing you can do to prevent being double Scorched, outside of certain cards. if you aren’t running tag evasion or Plascrete, there is no point in respecting the Scorch. you just have to accept that you may get flatlined.
btw I did actually know what “respecting Scorch” means… I was only arguing that it isn’t too difficult to avoid being Scorched. A decent Runner won’t get Scorched when they can do anything about it. for the other times (Wombo, Posted Bounty without protective means), it doesn’t matter what the Runner does.
Knowing what kind of combo you are dealing with is something that is within your control instead of just being ignorant of the game state, you can play around every single combo in this game. The 1 turn CI kill combo, you can recognize you are on a clock and go hard, you can kick jackson off of the table everytime you see him and know you are buying 1 turn every time.
posted bounty doesn’t forfeit to tag you, it tags and forfeits when scored. You can play around it by not letting 2 advanced agendas sit on the table. You can play around breaking news by not letting unkown cards or sansans sit on the table.
You always might get flatlined, if you aren’t playing protection against one of the most dominant corp strategies of all time, you need to respect that IT IS EASIER for you to get flatlined and know how to play accordingly. If you run aggressively like an idiot, you will have no control over when you win games.
Similarly, installing 1 plascrete or decoy doesn’t magically make you immune to combos, plenty of decks are running ways to meat damage you through 1 or 2 plascretes.
It matters a lot what the runner does. If you think it doesn’t, you need to check your strategy guide.
A good corp can and will create a win condition for themselves. Because that is literally the entire point of the corporation.
If I have 2 advancements on a posted bounty, and a midseason in hand, and 2 scorches, and more money than you, and you don’t have a plascrete carapace–you let me create that very elaborate setup and now you are going to lose.
Similarly, Accelerated Diagostics requires a tabled Jackson Howard, and a power shutdown to be used, and the runner can’t use a Hades Shard or Eden Shard or be Noise, AND I have more money than you and you don’t have any flatline protection. I created that setup, it didn’t just fall out of the sky.
The way to make someone “respect Scorch” is to give them undesirable options. Snare is an excellent card in Weyland for just that reason. You have to pay to fire it, but once you do they’ve got a tag and a smaller hand. They then have to spend time and effort fixing those problems or risk leaving themselves within easier Scorching range.
Tag & Bag is an alt-win condition. It’s the backup plan. The job of the rest of the deck is to make it so that the backup plan goes off if the primary plan fails, and vice versa. (This two-pronged approach is why I think Dead Coats is so powerful. It’s a deck that’s very good at scoring safely, but if they manage to steal, you have a solid shot at murdering them.)
this is pretty obvious. even if you do this, there are some games where you will not hit agendas and you will lose. even if you played perfectly. that is all I am saying. if you think that perfect play equals victories 100% of the time, I think you need to check your strategy guide. there are predetermined factors (deck building), and a big factor out of everyone’s control (chance).
my mistake about Posted Bounty. it is even less threatening than I remembered.
the “strategies” you listed for playing against (“respecting Scorch”) are things most Runners do against most decks anyway. Who lets unknown cards sit in remotes against NBN, if it can be helped? No one good… you’re missing my only point that sometimes you are going to get Scorched and flatlined regardless of how you play.
exactly.
[quote]Similarly, installing 1 plascrete or decoy doesn’t magically make you
immune to combos, plenty of decks are running ways to meat damage you
through 1 or 2 plascretes.[/quote]
you must be playing in the most combo saturated meta ever!
[quote]If I have 2 advancements on a posted bounty, and a midseason in hand,
and 2 scorches, and more money than you, and you don’t have a plascrete
carapace–you let me create that very elaborate setup and now you are
going to lose. [/quote]
the only thing the Runner has any say in here is the advanced card in a remote. even the credits: I can force you to rez all your ICE, and you still may come out on top of the credit race. without Siphon/Vamp the only thing the Runner can do to affect the Corp’s cash is force rezzes (and trash assets); and that’s not always enough. Outside of particular cards (Imp, Noise), no Runner can do anything about Operations in the Corporation’s hand. they are not there due to a misplay by the Runner. same goes for the plascrete. If it’s not in my deck, it has nothing to do with how I am playing; I simply don’t have Plascrete. as I said before, I can adjust my play all I want, but I cannot survive a double Scorch without a Plascrete (or tag evasion, again as mentioned before).
false. are you taking the credit for the fact that the Runner doesn’t have those cards/isn’t playing a certain ID?
TL;DR version
You are going to get flatlined by Scorched Earth sometimes, even if you play perfectly. It should be easy enough for a good player to avoid simple flatlines as to not require much conscious effort. What’s to respect? I say disrespect Scorched. If you are good, the vast majority of your flatline losses should be due to things out of your control.
So, I’ve proxied Blue Sun and, as bblum already said, Hostile + Grim + Archer + Mills is not very good. It makes a slow deck do even slower. That being said, the ID is amazing, I’ve installed agendas behind big Ice, rezzed them to stop them (it was early game, runner still didn’t have his econ set up) and bounced it back to my hand so I didn’t leave my centrals open!
The root is as amazing as I tought, the advanceable ICE (Orion and Wormhole so far) will only make it better.
That being said, what are you guys using for sentries? Now that I’m dropping the jankyness of Elizabeth’s infinite bad pub removal I’ll have to lose my Grims, Hostiles Takeover and therefore Archers.
I don’t think you necessarily have to lose Archers - just run less than 3. A connected Archer often creates a scoring window for one agenda minimum (often more than that), so forfeiting an Atlas (after stripping it of counters) to get that might actually make sense.
I’m only running 3x Caduceus and 1x Taurus (did some tweaks from the other day. Taurus as a 1-of feels good… I’ve been able to make it effective on occasion, killing Plascretes, Consoles, or RDIs, or just keeping it in hand in other occasions.)
I don’t even want to run Archer in this deck, because having to forfeit an agenda worth 2 points seems crappy to get it on a surprise. (no 1 point agendas in my version)… I could see how it might situationally work as a one-of though.
That would be perfect, but even if you have two ice already down, you install the AIZ.
On your next turn you put one ice back to hand and install a new on or the same one using AIZ this time and
starting to profit.
Using the ID ability does cost a click (most of the time anyway, as long as you plan on reinstalling). So if you’re paying $1 out of pocket to install the ice in front of another one, that’s no better than clicking for credits 1-for-1.
Vs CI if you haven’t won by turn 10sh, double/triple scorched with recursion to the same a few turns later? My friend will literally burn through 2 installed plascretes and kill me the following turn.
It does need respect. Lot’s of runner builds can’t keep up with CI money making and between card draw and recursion economy, you will just die if you haven’t won quickly enough.
At that point you’re profiting 1 credit/click. Or, no, I guess 2, maybe, doable just once per turn. Doesn’t quite seem worth the set-up to me, but having not played it I could well be wrong.
there are predetermined factors (deck building), and a big factor out of everyone’s control (chance).