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Concessions and Timed Wins


#1

As many of you already know, concessions have been made legal in Netrunner (as of April 2nd, 2016).

This raises an interesting question. Suppose you are playing the second game of your current Swiss round, and you’re going to time. You’re down 0-6, and you don’t see any way of coming back, but your opponent can’t find an agenda to close it out. When time is called, it is in your best intereste to concede the game, since you know you won’t be getting any points from that game anyway, and giving your opponent more Prestige helps your Strength of Schedule. This is simply a strategic move to better your position in the tournament, and is completely legal. One could argue that, even if you weren’t going to time, conceding that position is reasonable anyway.

Since conceding losing games that are going to time is (more often than not) the most strategically advantageous thing for you to do, one would expect that nearly every match going to time would either be a 2-point win for someone (via points of concession) or a legitimate draw with both players with the same score at the end of the round. The only reason I could see someone getting an actual timed win is because either the losing player doesn’t realize the advantage of conceding, or he is trying to “screw over” his opponent. Neither of those situations feels good for the winning player, who likely would feel like he is “missing out” on that extra point. EDIT: Perhaps the most legitimate reason for not conceding, as mentioned in the below comments, is if you are playing someone in the last round of Swiss close to your placement, and giving them an extra point could push you out of the running for the cut.

As an aside, if you are ever in that winning player’s position, under no circumstances should you ever pressure your opponent to concede. That is poor sportsmanship and possibly collusion.

My initial thought regarding this situation would be simply to change Timed Wins to give 2 Prestige instead of 1, like a normal win. However, this essentially removes the “punishment” for going to time; players should be incentivized to finish within the allotted time.

I, personally, and a big proponent of the idea that the right way to fix player behavior in a tournament is to incentivize them to behave in that way, so I wonder if there is something that can (or even should?) be done.

What do you all think? Is it OK that the legalization of concession incentivizes round-end concession? Is it OK that some players might get “screwed out of” an extra point because their opponent didn’t concede (when it was strategically advantageous for them to do so)? Or is that enough punishment for going to time?


#2

Respectively: Yes, yes, and yes.


#3

If I’m an RP playing against a Sunny player, is it collusion if I make an agreement with my opponent to play first player to get two scores, on turn 1?

This removes my risk of drawing, also.


#4

In a low pressure tournament like a GNK or Store Champ, I’ll concede. However, if this happens at Regionals, Nationals, or Worlds I will refuse to concede since that extra point could affect seeding for a cut, strength of schedule, etc. It’s not the nice guy thing to do, but I can assume we are all playing to win, not to have a win handed to us because we can’t manage to win a match within time.


#5

Though theoretically, wouldn’t conceding give you a stronger strength of schedule? You now have an opponent with an additional point.

The only time I could see not conceding affecting you positively is if you and your opponent are fighting for the same spot (which means you’re tied or you are slightly above your opponent), where them having 2 points would tie you whereas them having 1 point would leave them below you.


#6

There could be a case where a past opponent of your current opponent could benefit from the extra point given by conceding and pass you in the standings. These are all really niche corner cases, but so is conceding in respect to time. I rather play to my outs than give away a free win to an opponent that couldn’t close out the game.

The only time I could consider conceding is if I was locked out via Blacklist or some other method. I rather have extra time to shake off the tilt than to wait for my opponent to score out.


#7

I am in agreement that if you would otherwise get 0 prestige, you should concede. However, if it’s the final round of Swiss, and you won the previous game, if you give your opponent that extra prestige could bump you out of the cut.

However, if I am the winning person in a earlier round of Swiss I will ask my opponent if they will concede if our match goes to time. If they say no, I will scoop up my cards and say “GG”. If they inquire more, I will politely explain to them the advantages of conceding. I am almost positively sure this doesn’t fall under collusion, but if it does I would like to know.


#8

Do other games suffer from these kind of issues? Is this a particular problem with Swiss or something? If Netrunner isn’t alone in these problems then what do other games do to fix these issues?


#9

It seems rather illogical that a timed win is worth less prestige than a win, but a timed loss is not worth more prestige than a loss.

That’s the root of the problem.


#10

In Magic, there is no such thing as a timed win or loss. You either Win, Lose, or Draw. If a game goes to time, it’s a draw, not a timed win for whoever has the most life, because in Magic it is extremely possible to win with less life than your opponent.

Yes, that would be considered collusion.


#11

The way you wrote that is pretty misleading for those unfamiliar with Magic. Life total is the ending condition for competitive MtG games 99% of the time, even more often than agenda points resolve a Netrunner game.

A better way to state it would be, current agenda points are a much better indicator for which player will likely be the first to have 7 agenda points vs. current life totals are a very poor indicator for which player will likely be the first to have 0 life points.

Of course in Netrunner it’s still not perfect, you got that crim with 6 agenda points, every fracter in the heap and several barriers rezzed.


#12

I think a lot of Netrunner players don’t realize how much and how often concessions (or ID’s) happen in the last round of major events. I know from experience that it has happened at Regionals, Nationals, and Worlds to get players into the cut. And it’s fine. In the case of ID’s those players played well enough to put themselves int hat position. In the case of a concession, well what normally happens is the players are both on the bubble and either would need to sweep to make the cut. So someone wins the first game, and the other player “lets” them win the second game so that they have a chance, as he has already been mathematically eliminated.

I don’t really know where I am going with this, other than to once again state this happens all the time, and has been since the start of competitive Netrunner, because it happens in every other competitive card game as well. It isn’t wrong, unfair, or unethical. A lot of players are either ignorant, or willfully ignorant of the goings ons at these events.


#13

I’m pretty ignorant, honestly. At a Force of Will prerelease my last round opponent conceded just before the round was called a draw so that I’d get 1st place and playmat instead of some other guy, I was kinda dropjaw’d and didn’t really get the culture of it.


#14

It is when the tournament rules expressly forbid it.


#15

I would be in favor of a 3 point system where win is 3, a timed win is worth 2 and a tie is worth 1. Seems like there should be some incentive to having more points than your opponent when time is called. Not sure if timed losses should be worth anything though.


#16

I thought the tournament rules forbade concessions?


#17

Tournament rules shouldn’t favor some players, and put others at a disadvantage.


#18

The tournament rules got updated really recently, concessions are now legal. New tournament rules: IDs and Concessions now legal


#19

Sure. So maybe it’s a good thing that the rules have changed.

But players shouldn’t violate the tournament rules. If you’re saying it happened a ton before it was made legal, I’m not going to be anything but surprised and disappointed.


#20

If both myself and my opp need a sweep for the cut is it now legal to only play the first game for 4 prestige?