Could you play with one type of ICE?

[Asurya]

A recent attempt to build a new Jinteki deck got me thinking (as I was struggling to squeeze enough Code Gates in).

Could you build a deck with one sub-type of ICE and do you think it could be viable and competitive enough to actually win (more than 50% of the time)?

Going back to what got me thinking about this. Would any potential downside be offset by the fact that any given Runner will have dedicated around 2/3’s of their icebreakers to a defeat an ice sub-type, or types, you don’t ever install. Each one of those cards they install is a waste of a click and credits and anything that boosters them (e.g. a Lockpick for a Refractor) would also be a waste of clicks or credits and ultimately deck space?

Just thinking out loud so to speak?

[mediohxcore]

Going back to what got me thinking about this. Would any potential downside be offset by the fact that any given Runner will have dedicated around 2/3’s of their icebreakers to a defeat an ice sub-type, or types, you don’t ever install. Each one of those cards they install is a waste of a click and credits and anything that boosters them (e.g. a Lockpick for a Refractor) would also be a waste of clicks or credits and ultimately deck space?

The major downside is that a dynamic runner like Maxx or Kate that has SMC and/or clone chip might never install the breakers they dont need. I think a better move is to always include a very minimal amount (2ish) ICE of each type that forces a breaker. It gives you access to a wider ICE base, so it tends to be a little bit more powerful, and you can count on eventually being able to force the runner to install a specific breaker some time down the line.

[nmh]

In most games, the runner will only play a portion of the cards they draw, if for no other reason than that there are only 4 clicks in a turn and you don’t get to stack your deck. Thus, given that some number of our draws will be naturally dead for other reasons (lack of time/money, duplicate consoles, etc), most successful runner decks have, at least implicitly, developed strategies to deal with useless cards, generally by efficiently drawing even more cards. In essence, most successful runner decks are already “pre-teched” against your strategy.

Considering the games I’ve personally played where the corp only draws 1 or 2 types of ice, it seems like the most common outcome will be that the runner spends the majority of the game with an unused tutor or icebreaker in hand, happy to trade their lower hand size for the savings in time and money.

edited repeatedly for grammar

[Crvnch]

I think it could be worthwhile if you were able to attack the runner’s breaker suite so that you remove their ability to break a certain type of ICE. For example, if a Criminal only runs a 2 code gate breakers and you managed to trash them, you could potentially lock them out of servers indefinitely. I think in practice this would be very hard to do since dedicated program destruction tends to be limited to sentries, which would make it hard to have enough ETR ICE. Also, there is enough program recursion running around at the moment that you would probably have to play Blacklist.

If you are running only one time to ICE merely to make 2/3 of the Runner’s breakers pointless, I think that is unlikely be worth artificially limiting your ICE choices to one subtype.

[false_idol]

One potential up-side to playing only one kind of ICE is that you bottle-neck how the runner will be able to interact with your ICE. I personally really dislike playing against cutlery spam, and an even spread of ICE gives them an even access to ICE destruction, rather than forcing them to pitch those cards and/or chew threw their recursion. There also are fewer viable fracters, which makes it easy for me to decide how to best punish those breakers (Corroder and Lady).

That being said, there is no reason not to play some really strong ICE, and/or make them respect the possibility of different ICE.

[tomdidiot]

If you expect pre-paid kate with dogs to be everywhere, potentially ? Just spam barriers and they’ll eventually run out of dogs.

[endgame]

This archetype used to be called “Uncorrodable”, as it was mostly about using barriers and keeping Corroder (the only fracter anyone played) off the table. It was usually a Weyland build, because you get access to Superior Cyberwalls and Power Shutdown. Run some destroyers and gear-check code gates to keep the runner honest. The main thing you’re trying to do is put so much pressure on their fracter that they can’t keep it on the board, via cards like Power Shutdown, Will-o-the-wisp and whatever destroyers you care to include. Bad pub doesn’t matter if the runner can’t get in, so Weyland econ agendas like Geothermal Fracking keep the pressure on.

[MondoPeregrino]

If you’re going for Encrypted Portals/Unorthodox Predictions chaining, it’s certainly possible to go all code gates if you’re willing to count Chimera/Rainbow/Mother Goddess as code gates; and run Lycan/Wendigo/Will-o’-the-Wisps to handle breakers. Lag Time can help, too. It’s not the most viable thing ever, but it is a pretty fun deck.

[spags]

Yes. 10char

[Badeesh]

Bad Times could be fun in this idea too. Pretty expensive though.

[PeekaySK]

Last time I tried this, I went with Jinteki, and Sentries as my type of choice. I cheated a little by running Galahad to go with my Lancelot, but there’s still plenty of hard stops to choose from. Will’o is a must, Ash helps (because you ideally want both successful run triggers for the Will’o to fire, and actually neuter the run’s impact on you).

Biggest problem was all the Shaper tutoring running around, which made Will’o useless.

Bad Times could be fun in this idea too.

How exactly does “the runner doesn’t need to actually install most of his programs” lead to “A card that blocks 2 MU for a turn is a worthy include”?

[Badeesh]

Just the general rig trashing ‘uncorrodable’ thing. And like scorched, you always double up bad times. Am I really that off topic? My understanding of the card was always, runner loses 4 MU, trashes whole rig pretty much instantly.

[PeekaySK]

Out of all the ways you can trash a runner’s Fracter in this game, double Bad Times has got to be both the most expensive and the least reliable one I can think of

[Badeesh]

Well yes lol. That’s why I said it was too expensive. But it is a heckuva lot of fun when the guy is stacking up plascretes and you sea/double bad times instead. I think only Blue Sun can pull this off.

Out of all the ways you can trash a runner’s Fracter

I wouldn’t be looking for the fracter only. Going down to one breaker in the mid/late game against Blue Sun is like the biggest scoring window I can imagine. Minor League stuff but I would totally try it over beers on my patio. Now I know I’m off topic.

Didn’t realise fun stuff wasn’t allowed on the threads. List A ALL THE WAY huh chaps.

[PeekaySK]

It’s less about fun stuff not being allowed (I’m the guy that plays Professor and Morning Star, often in the same deck, remember?) and more about (not) answering the original poster’s question. Here’s a particularly good example:

Going down to one breaker in the mid/late game against Blue Sun is like the biggest scoring window I can imagine.

Sure… but only if you’re playing hard stops of all ICE subtypes… which is pretty much exactly counter to what the original inquiry was.

Now, if you were to make a “Could you make Bad Times worthwhile?”, I’d be amongst the first trying to brainstorm a useful answer other than “nope. 10char”

[Badeesh]

You know, I might just post that thread. (Although I think I know the answer)

[Badeesh]

Now I know I’m off topic.

10charstwice

[bahram]

The ‘All Barriers’ + Superior Cyberwalls + Will o Wisp + Agg Sec + Power Shutdown Blue Sun with Ashs deck is fun.

And beats people who don’t know whats going on. And other people too.

[Syntax]

@Asurya I don’t know if you do this, but I’d rather play, for ratios (Barrier & Codegate & Sentry, in no particular order) : 7/7/4 than 6/6/6 or 8/5/5.

I’d rather have both equal numbers and then one minimum in one ice family than both equal + one maximum.

Another weird stuff of mine I guess that is difficult to explain in english but would be crystal clear in french. Anyway.

So for me, 18/0/0 is no way. All risks on the same breaker with stuff like Special Order or SMC flying around ? Nay…

[Killonaire]

The Blue Sun ‘all barriers, all the time, superior cyberwalls’ deck really isn’t that bad. There’s something extremely taxing about a bunch of Rainbows, Bastions, Wall of Statics, Firewalls and other ‘mid cost’ barriers once superior cyberwalls gets going.

You’d score through Off the Grid remotes, protected by an impenetrable HQ with Crisium Grids. It was a very fun deck archtype. Wisp too.