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Cybernetics Division, Brain Damage/Hand Limitation?

Actually, they are all pretty good. Three counters on Vitruvius either gives you an insane economic boost (triple Hedge Fund in a turn) or makes a single Neural into a triple Neural for a kill or it just pulls your Mushins back to start over. You can use Beta Test at the start of the turn and have a whole turn to recover if it dumps an agenda. And Man Up is obviously a powerful score even if I agree with @PeekaySK that it’s less good now Clot. Finally, I’m still holding out for Project Ares as a potential board wipe even if it will probably work out being bad.

Now having said all that, my problem is that I think the economy is going to suck royally and Siphon/Vamp will eat it for breakfast. I’m starting to feel the familiar sensation of “wouldn’t this all be better in ETF”…

5 Likes

I wonder if Chairman Hiro has a place in this kind of deck?

I’m thinking Glacier up hardcore with 3-deep servers all around, Valley Grid them up, and then use Executive Bootcamp to bring out Hiro and rez to win right away. Kinda…oh which one is the “combo” player, is it Johnny? Kinda that kind of style.

ICE can be cheap as hell, you just need hard ETR ICE so they have to break it to get in. Silver, Bronze, a Gold for surprise, Eli, some others I’m not thinking of.

Probably massive Jank, but imagine the huge grin on your face after you flatline without doing a single point of damage. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

EDIT: Or, for less terrible-ness, use Bootcamp to bring out Hiro when it’s time for the kill turn, and use other pieces in the meantime. That’s 8 influence spent thus far, though.

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I’ve found Valley Grid to be just bad against Criminal. Between Femme and Inside Job it’s pretty easy to get in and trash it without lowering your hand size much. Versions running parasite will find it even easier. And it’s less good in general without Caprice/Nisei Mk II.

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Good against shaper seems alright in the current metagame. No?

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Probably the best line of play against non-stealth Criminal is to just build up slowly on your centrals, be very careful and slow, and just tax them out and score normally. I understand this is the “standard” way to play against Criminal. Parasite is actually not great right now with many ICE being geared to be strong enough to at least survive a parasite - we don’t see Komainu, Pup, or other things so much anymore for this reason, combined with the shift from Andy to Kate (or so I thought).

Stealth Criminal…well, it’s not like Andromeda is popular, right? :smile:

The biggest issue (assuming you wanted to go this way) is influence. 3 Jackson, and 2 Valley Grid, and a Chairman Hiro is all 12 influence. Is there enough stuff in HB to make it work by itself? Maybe you run less Jackson?

Playing slowly is pretty risky with a 44 card deck and a 4 card hand size when they have Legworks.

I don’t mean this to rain on your parade, just that I did some testing with and against Valley Grid in Biotech and was disappointed with how it worked out in practice - although I accept @MasterAir’s point that being against Shaper is a large part of the battle at present.

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Pfft. Please. When it comes to Netrunner, all my parades are in rainforests. :smile:

I know Valley Grid is not great, and having ways to end the run are certainly superior as opposed to…not having that. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s almost certainly too janky to be serious. I feel like Chairman Hiro might have a place, but probably not. Easier to just use in-faction tools, I bet.

In a deck that already needs to run traps, I think Chairman Hiro makes R&D way too vulnerable. He is fun in a Biotech Killdeck, but he does lose you games that you should have won. The risk/reward is just not there I think, especially with the hefty influence price.

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What do people think about Shell Corp as an econ option for those failed traps? I think it has potential, and might help the argument for MU.

This is my current proposal I’m going to test when Chrome City lands. The NAPDs might still get switched for MU.

Cyber-Rush

Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded (Chrome City)

Agenda (11)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
2x Domestic Sleepers i[/i]
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)

Asset (10)
2x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
2x Project Junebug (Core Set) ••
Upgrade (2)
2x Shell Corporation (All That Remains)

Operation (8)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Mushin No Shin (Honor and Profit) ••••
3x Neural EMP (Core Set) ••••• •

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x NEXT Silver i[/i]

Code Gate (3)
3x NEXT Bronze (Opening Moves)

Sentry (3)
2x Architect (Up and Over)
1x NEXT Gold (The Valley)

Other (1)
1x Mother Goddess i[/i]
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

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Turns out Shell Corp isn’t a significant enough economical threat to force runs on failed traps, most of the time.

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That’s fair. I was more thinking that the traps provide solid protection for shell corp. That said, I’ve not tested with it so I’m not sure how strong it is even with protection.

Since the clearances are a bit of a no go with the smaller hand size and the campaigns are awkward with the smaller deck and less ice, it could be a nice alternative to keep you going into the mid to late game.

Problem is that even assuming the runner doesn’t actually nuke it (and they certainly could, with various tricks like Deus X, Queen’s Gambit, Singularity and whatnot), it takes 3 turns of usage just to break with a situation where you’d just be sinking those clicks into “take 1 credit”. You turn a profit of +2 credits on the fourth turn, and a profit of +4 on the fifth turn.

So, if you were gearing for a looooooong game, perhaps. In this deck? I’d say it’s a strong, resounding “nope”.

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All good points, thanks for saving me from an iffy deck slot! sigh One day Shell Corp, one day.

I guess it’s some combination GLC and maaaybe Restructure, although I’m worried the later will clog up that precious HQ space.

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Yeah, I think most people assume HB’s agendas don’t put pressure on the runner because most people don’t bother to actually use their 3/2s for anything besides being 3/2s.

Still grumpy that parasite is everywhere, if only because I really wanna run the NEXT suite with this list. Makes it much more likely you’ll draw your pieces, it’s solid gear-check aside from the Parasite issue, it grows more taxing as you rez more of it which makes it actually useful long-term, and Gold can both reset Gear Check and prompt kills if the runner isn’t prepared to deal with it. Mimic + NRE might make Gold much worse though, I dunno.

My initial draft, probably needing some readjustment:

CyberNEXTics DeMushin

Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded (Chrome City)

Agenda (10)

Asset (12)

Operation (11)

Barrier (3)

Code Gate (3)

Sentry (4)

Other (1)

15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

The rough idea is to just rush as quickly as possible. Every agenda they let you score sets you ahead, particularly if done with Mushins. Vitruvius lets you reuse many Mushins, SDC makes them need to be even more careful, SDF makes Overwriters do +1 damage which increases the flatline potential, and ABT first thing lets you clean up you mess (though overall ABT is the least desired thing to score here due to the lack of ice, I feel like, it’s just easy).

2 each of Junebug and Overwriter because the deck’s only 44 cards, so 1/11 being an advance trap is already pretty heavy. Overwriter’s use is pretty obvious – make the runner have fewer options so they need to play around Snare!, Junebug, and other Overwriters more carefully. Ideally it should be Mushin’d and Advanced once, but even IAA is fine. Also, at 2-of each it’s easy to change it up to 3 of one and one or two of the other by shifting some cards and influence around, so that it’s not easy for opponents to know how many there will be based on how many they’ve seen, so the threat doesn’t necessarily die with them.

Was going to do Brain-Taping + Bioroids but that seemed to take up too much space for tax and brain damage that was too easy to avoid when desperate. If this gets torn apart by parasite as badly as I fear, I may revisit that plan. The Interns, Architect, and Vitruvius will hopefully help to manage that some. Having Overwriter as the only source of Brain Damage is a bit awkward, though, and does make me wonder about swapping the Sentinel Defense Forces for NAPDs or a 5/3 of some sort and another SDC (or going down to one SDC with the 5/3 to fit a Biotic Labor or something maybe).

Mushin’s main roles are time compression, threat delivery, and economic support. You save two clicks and three credits off of a Mushin in exchange for letting it sit there for a turn. It’s a primary scoring card because you can just play it and click for a credit if you don’t fear being drained with Siphon/Vamp/Lamprey that turn and leave the runner to sweat.

The Snares were originally Valley Grids due to NEXT Ice’s must-break nature, but changed because I was convinced by the other arguments here about how easy it is to play around Valley Grid, especially if you’re already doing Parasite. I kinda want three of them, but not more than I want Jackson, Junebug, and Mushin. Honestly, if I had the influence and slots I’d probably grab a couple of Pop-Up Windows or something along those lines. Cutting a Jackson or Junebug for one is still tempting, but strikes me as being ill-advised, even if it’d make Legworks and Maker’s Eyes more potentially hilarious,

Adonis is there for a few reasons: extra money in an old Mushin server that you iced to try and get the NEXT thing protecting it rezzed, a bit of tax for the runner to trash, makes unadvanced installs less certain to be agendas which both makes a bit of shell game doable and increases the value of Snare! marginally since it has an application as an install as well.

It might be the wrong choice to have three of him, but while Eve is harder to trash she’s also harder to rez and pays out more slowly, and other econ options seem more volatile. Successful Demo only helps when I’m not having my teeth kicked in, Blue Level seems too likely to overdraw and leave me in a bad way, Restructure requires having lots of money in a deck that might run pretty poor much of the time, PAD’s too slow and too little for what the deck needs, Melange and Contracts are unlikely to live long enough, and most other options I can think of cost influence.

I could probably swap an Interns for a Biotic or Archived Memories or something else like that, might be more useful that way, but getting to use one to avoid install costs when trying to build a deep server seems useful, and that’s not out of the question between NEXT and Architect.

The big reason I’m not going for meat damage of any sort is that Butchershop is getting popular around here, the best local player is the Dead Coats guy (even if he’s doing RP right now, it’s a lingering concern), and most good runner decks will likely trounce my economy too heavily for Punitives to land. Needing to land three is always tricky, and the hand size reduction only means that triple punitive will kill through one Plascrete, it does nothing to help the economy of the deck to land those Punitives against a rich runner like Grim Feast Val, Andysucker, Headlock Reina, or PPVP Kate.

Overwriter, Junebug, and Snare! are all manageable for the runner (Overwriter least commonly, due to Hand Size stuff being minor by and large, but Feedback Filter can stop Brain Damage, too), but they depend more heavily on drawing up to avoid flatline risk or running specific counter-cards that have fallen out of favor (see: Feedback Filter, now that Eater/Keyhole is dealing with PE). It’s true that if a runner never runs a Mushin’d card they’ll only ever risk hitting Snare!, but I’ve got at least three chances to Mushin in a game (and if one of them’s a Vitruvius, that number grows). If the runner just never runs one, even just in the first few turns, it will provide me the opening needed to win the game.

Things I’m sad won’t fit:

  • A Viktor of some sort to provide occasional Brain Damage and tax Yog more heavily without depending on rezzing a bunch of other pieces.
  • An Ichi 2.0 is also tempting for the Brain Damage trace power increase and the difficulty of clicking through it, but it’s as expensive as Gold and I don’t know that it gives the same payout. 1.0 might be worth it but makes Mimic + NRE or 4tman too good to have so many eggs in one basket.
  • Another barrier to support Silver, Eli is too weak to Lady and also permeable without, Wall of Static is kind of mediocre (and worse vs Lady), and Paper Wall is nicely cheap but too temporary. If I cut an Interns for NOT an Archived Memories or econ card, it’ll be for ice, but I dunno if there’s a barrier that’d do more for me than Viktor or Ichi will.
  • Shipment from SanSan was an important economy card in the deck I’m building this off of, but that deck ran no Snares which seem more important, here, due to the decrease in handsize making Legwork more of a worry. It also ran EffComm and 5/3s which either combo with SfSS or get extra benefit due to the amount of advancing required. (Was particularly good in conjunction with EffComm or Biotic, below, to overscore a Vitruvius from unadvanced for little money or to bluff a 5/3 with only one advancement and then score out to close the game before the runner expects – less viable with no 5/3s, EffComms or Biotics.)
  • A Biotic Labor to FA something out in a crucial moment or let you double-Mushin if you’re down to the wire and have no server that feels like it’ll be safe next turn. But it costs too much and seems too likely to end up just sitting in hand, unused, much as I might like it.
  • Efficiency Committee doesn’t seem quite worth it, but maybe it’d be the better play over the SDFs, with the lack of brain damage options here. Can at least spend them to set up or click for credits even if I don’t have SfSS to FA with.
  • More economy of any other sort, but as discussed about I don’t know what I could add. Swapping a Gila Hands in for a SDC seems kinda silly, even if it helps this aspect of the deck. Might have to click for credits more than I’d like. Reeeally wish I had the influence free for a Pop-Up Window or GRNDL Refinery.

Looking that list over, changing agendas to a PriReq (god there need to be better 5/3s), an EffComm, and just one SDC might be the better route, though that makes scoring two SDCs and making Snare! a death sentence without drawing up impossible, and running SDC for the next bit as the only off-number agenda seems wise until everyone around me stops trying to get Turntables to work (and either gives up, making it safe to swap, or succeeds well enough that it becomes an even worse idea anyway, because at least SDC punishes them slightly for swapping something else out).

Also, the one Interns and one Archived Memories thing, to make Mushin recursion less dependent on Jackson and Vitruvius.

3 Likes

I know other poster have already discussed a bit why this is a tough plan to stick, but just a heads up that in order for chairman hiro to work with valley grid he has to be installed at the end of the turn they ran it. valley grid is “his or her maximum hand size is reduced by 1 until the beginning of your next turn.” where your refers to the corp, so counting on bootcamp to pull him up doesn’t work because by then the runner MHS will already have returned to normal.

3 Likes

Maybe one Biotic?

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I mean, if the trap has failed, couldn’t you neutralize QG just by rezzing the trap protecting your Shell Corp?

I knew there was a reason it didn’t work great, but I couldn’t figure it out. There it is.

Yep, I just wasted everyone’s time, please pardon me. I’ll just sit here in the fetal position for a bit. :smile:

I have been running this list for a while online. It is a ton of fun to play.

Dain Bramage

Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded (Chrome City)

Agenda (8)
2x Domestic Sleepers i[/i]
3x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Wotan (Creation and Control)

Asset (8)
2x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Upgrade (1)
1x Ryon Knight (Chrome City)

Operation (14)
2x Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing)
3x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Mushin No Shin (Honor and Profit) ••••• •
3x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors) ••••• •

Barrier (3)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control)

Code Gate (6)
2x Gyri Labyrinth (Double Time)
2x Viktor 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)

Sentry (4)
2x Fenris (True Colors)
1x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead)
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City

I think punitive plus Mushin is definitely the way to go for Cybernetics Division. The clearances help a lot in getting the needed pieces into your hands, as well as the credits to pay for it because of the smaller deck size. I wish I had space for another Ryon Knight, as with Project Woton counters it becomes easier to set him up, but deck space is tight.

Have you ever had Gyri Labyrinth do any work? It doesn’t feel like it would be likely to ever fire except early game, before any other brain damage has been applied.