In my experience, the stars need to align in order to make it lead to a flatline. In ~10 games I played with them, they didn’t work once.
Correct, no one is going to just randomly trip over against Gyri - especially late game when the damage might be relevant. If you’re going to use it you need to make the stars align with support from Corporate Trouble Shooter and Twins etc.
In a Cybernetics Division deck you will probably still need to recruit some meat damage or Ronin to finish the job.
You are right, I have only gotten one flatline of them in ~25 games played. What they seem to do most of the time is act kind of like Chum if the runner has no decoder installed, where they jack out after hitting it. I am not totally sold on them yet, and am thinking about replacing them with vipers or something.
I don’t think you’ll ever flatline with them. Their use is to rush a 5/3 behind with the threat of Punitive. But tbh you are better off rushing off behind a NEXT Bronze in 90% of cases.
Think it needed to be at least str 4 to be a playable piece of ICE.
1 Like
Then we talk about patch, people cry, sad face.
I figure I should share my experiences with an (admittedly bad) list I tried at my league last night.
New Brain
Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded (Chrome City)
Agenda (10)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
2x Mandatory Upgrades (What Lies Ahead)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
2x Self-Destruct Chips (Chrome City)
Asset (11)
3x Brain-Taping Warehouse (The Valley)
3x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
Operation (12)
3x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Mushin No Shin (Honor and Profit)
3x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors)
Barrier (5)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x Heimdall 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Markus 1.0 (The Source)
Code Gate (4)
2x Viktor 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)
Sentry (2)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
The deck went 1-2 dropping games for a multitude of reasons and only winning because of one, Mandatory Upgrades is very strong when you score it. After it lands as long as your opponent isn’t being incredibly oppressive or packing clot then you just ice R&D and win.
The main pain points in the list were Agenda flood which was partially due to packing the new 3-1 and partially due to having an agenda you don’t want to try and score without Mushin. Money was also a giant issue, though I think I chose poorly in asset economy. I knew the list wouldn’t be as rich as EtF so I decided to opt for cheaper econ options but they just ended up being underwhelming, an Eve would’ve been very welcome. However even with something stronger like Eve I’m not sure I could’ve powered the Punitives when I needed them. The current list couldn’t beat a runner with a decent economy even one time, landing two is out of the question without some heavy changes. I was also hesitant to use Vitruvius counters to pull back Hedge Funds since I was saving them for Mushin/Punitive, that may have been a mistake but not having to worry about where your next Mushin is when you pull MU is useful.
The final problem is with Punitive and it’s two-fold. First the runner can turn off Punitive if they score three times, it’s rare but it happens and is compounded by the second problem. Punitive doesn’t do anything with 2-pointers without support, if you can’t land an Overwriter or score Self-Destruct Chips you still need 3 Punitives to kill someone. If I want a kill card that doesn’t work without Overwriter I’ll just run Neural since you can’t turn that off, it’s easier to play, and it lets me run a better agenda instead of the 3-1s.
All that being said, Mushin + MU is incredibly fun to play if only to watch the runner squirm for a turn (or two if you decide to slowroll the MU). If I were to make improvements to this list I’d drop Markus and Viktor 2 for Wall of Static and IQ/Turing, not having hard-stops kinda sucked. I’d also lose the Warehouse and PAD for faster/more reliable money, Private Contracts is possible and Eve would be good if I plan to not guard remotes as heavily. It’s also tempting to swap over to the 3-point agendas if only to combat flood (they’re just as effective with Punitive post-Overwriter)
Wondering if 40 is a trap. There are very few corp decks that play well with less than 49 cards. As in, I think there’s only been a few NBN decks and they were all heavily based on FA/Rush. This deck doesn’t strike me as a rush deck, at all. Maybe this should be played at a more normal deck size and focus on playing a Red Coats game with some damage splashed in.
For the long game you need more cards.
3 Likes
I think the Mushin decks can rush well enough, especially if you land the MU you want the game to end quickly before they can establish an R&D lock. The 5/3 Punitive list is probably better out of a Red Coats style list simply because it can score the agendas more naturally. Of course if you’re at that point then you likely want to be in EtF since it plays the long game better, and you probably don’t need any brain damage because landing a one Punitive kill requires the runner to only have two cards in hand, might as well just land two Punitive rather than chase 3 brain damage.
EDIT: An alternative rush list would be Gyri + 5/3 in Cybernetics since that can kill from one Punitive, that’s a lot of eggs in a 2-str code gate basket though.
Braiinz v.1
Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded (Chrome City)
Agenda (10)
1x False Lead (A Study in Static)
2x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
3x Sentinel Defense Program (Creation and Control)
Asset (9)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) [color=#FF8C00]•••[/color]
Upgrade (2)
2x Ryon Knight (Chrome City)
Operation (8)
3x Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Mushin No Shin (Honor and Profit) [color=#DC143C]••••[/color]
Barrier (5)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x Galahad i[/i] [color=#708090]•••[/color]
Code Gate (6)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Merlin (All That Remains) [color=#708090]•••[/color]
2x Turing (Breaker Bay)
Sentry (4)
1x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead)
2x Lancelot (First Contact) [color=#708090]••[/color]
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Will test something like this.
I’d test the new agenda in this slot as well. Some combos with bioroids/Ryon, but a straight pseudo brain damage seems just as good.
2 Likes
Play it with 49 then, it has the influence, you don’t NEED to play it as 40-44.
Eh, I’m not so sure. It’s very close on numbers, and the ability to be more consistent for combo pieces is awesome.
I am really itching to try a never advance Cybernetics deck once Regionals season is over. This is what I’ve been in the lab with. I know the econ is shitty, but I’m planning on dropping the ELPs for more money. Would love to hear some thoughts.
Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded
Agenda (10)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
1x Eden Fragment
3x Project Vitruvius
3x Self-Destruct Chips
Asset (8)
3x Edge of World ••••• •
3x Jackson Howard •••
2x Snare! ••••
Upgrade (4)
2x Ryon Knight
2x Shell Corporation
Operation (7)
2x Enhanced Login Protocol
2x Green Level Clearance
3x Hedge Fund
Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0
1x Heimdall 1.0
1x Heimdall 2.0
Code Gate (6)
2x Pop-up Window ••
2x Turing
2x Viktor 2.0
Sentry (4)
2x Fenris
2x Ichi 1.0
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
1 Like
Want to try something like this. Works similar to a Mushin Medtech deck, the difference being your Mushin is actually scary. You have sleepers to make it so you can win off 2 5/3 scores and your opponent still needs to get to 7 to win, which is kind of like the future perfect, I guess?
Big bonus is that if they guess wrong on Mushin, they’re probably just dead, so I would suspect you can just Mushin 5/3s for days. Archived x3 lets you replay Mushins, rescue trashed Overwriters, double up on economy, especially Demo, and maybe most importantly, enables double Punitive kills off the one copy in the case where they don’t hit Overwriter and double Neural kills when they do.
No idea if the numbers are reasonable or if the ICE makes sense but I maintain that it’s a waste of time to try to brain people with anything but Overwriter. I think this list is probably better than the ManUp one I posted earlier, as it’s a lot less vulnerable on the centrals and can threaten to win in functionally two scores rather than having to score ManUp and FA through probable R&D lock with shit ICE.
Mushin 5/3 (44 cards)
Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded
Agenda (8)
2 Domestic Sleepers
1 Hades Fragment
3 Priority Requisition
1 Project Wotan
1 Utopia Fragment
Asset (6)
3 Cerebral Overwriter
3 Jackson Howard
Operation (18)
3 Archived Memories
3 Green Level Clearance
3 Hedge Fund
3 Mushin No Shin
2 Neural EMP
1 Punitive Counterstrike
3 Successful Demonstration
Barrier (5)
3 Eli 1.0
2 Wall of Static
Code Gate (3)
3 Quandary
Sentry (4)
2 Ichi 1.0
2 Rototurret
6 Likes
Something I found was that once I was below 3 credits, people were obviously not afraid of the CO any more, and would hit my remotes. They did this even if I still had 2 credits. Tossing in a Junebug or two has since won me a few games.
I had a Junebug initially but decided the punitive would be better. I don’t know; it’s not like I actually test things. I almost wanted to build this deck with 1 overwriter just so the opponent would always be scared of the other two.
2 Likes
I tried several builds via OCTGN last night and I have the feeling that the deck is still missing one or two keycards (regarding brain damage) to be somewhat competitive, especially now when lots of players will give brain cage a try (at least as a one of).
That’s what labdog is for… (also boxee)
Lab Dog? I think this card is just awful.
1 Like
And now for something completely different!
Cybernetics?
Cybernetics Division: Humanity Upgraded
Agenda (9)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
3x Project Wotan
3x Self-Destruct Chips
Asset (6)
3x Eve Campaign
3x Jackson Howard •••
Upgrade (3)
3x Awakening Center
Operation (11)
3x Bioroid Efficiency Research
1x Biotic Labor
3x Green Level Clearance
1x Hedge Fund
3x Oversight AI ••••• •
Barrier (5)
3x Heimdall 2.0
2x Wotan
Code Gate (3)
1x Tollbooth ••
2x Viktor 2.0
Sentry (6)
2x Archer ••••
3x Janus 1.0
1x Zed 1.0
Other (1)
1x Howler
15 influence spent (max 15)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
44 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Chrome City
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
I’ve recently been playing a big ice ETF deck which I’ve found pretty strong, as it effectively taxes shapers, can score quickly and plays a disgusting never advance game. Also, I haven’t seen shutdown Gabe for a long while. One of the things that suprised me was the degree to which brain damage became an alternate win condition just through scoring pressure and Awakening centre; Zed has actually handed me a couple of kills off one of these. The above deck is an attempt to port this to the new ID, the biggest issue however appears to be space, and I may well drop the OAIs and oof ice as they’re just there to use up inf. Maybe Neural katana’s could go in instead. Anyway, with the smaller deck size, I’m optimistic you could build a fast deck which pressures by scoring snowbally agendas early behind large, damaging ice. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Also, I really need to squeeze in an overwriter.