Nah, it’s Hitler. Definitely Hitler.
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That has more to do with the fact that so few people enjoy playing IG that there might be 1-3 in the entire field of a 30+ person tournament.
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this is spot on: its ban/errata candidate due to either NPE or time consideration.
MWL is not the right spot for it
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How would you errata it? Bottom of the deck? Sac museum of history to shuffle?
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I said it was underplayed for its power level. “Few people enjoy playing” IG is one way to interpret the objective data point that the deck is underplayed for its power level.
I played 3 MoH, 3 Mumba, 3 MCH and a Heritage Committee in 2 of my last 3 GNKs because I enjoy that type of strategy, but didn’t play any of those cards or IG in my most recent regionals because I was concerned and worried about time issues giving me a NPE. The only player to bring those 10 cards to that same regionals was awarded a timed loss in the middle of a successful biolock in the cut; he received more prize support than I did but I feel like I would have had a much more negative experience had we swapped shoes, prizes and all.
I am biased towards thinking there are others that enjoy the strategy or are at least indifferent to it and aren’t entering with it for similar concerns. The alternate interpretation: hypermodernism, FA, 7 point and glacier are just really the archetypes that get people going and asset stax isn’t - seems less plausible to me. But I haven’t circulated a survey and again I’m biased so that’s why I left the statement open-ended.
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I think making museum 1 per deck would be best. That way it can’t recur itself.
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most probably limit 1 per deck, or give it the property of uniqueness such that multiples cannot be in play at once
uniqueness wouldn’t really help.
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[quote="spags, post:79, topic:7470]
Museum IG is cancer. It’s not fun to play, nor play against.[/quote]
Is it? I feel sad because I never got much of a chance to play it on either side. The Ronin-Hiro-EMP version seemed a bit cheesy but could be fun. Then the Hive-Bioethics version came out and that seemed legitimately strong, but I never saw it in the wild and the whole internet started spazzing out about it so I guess I won’t get to play it.
I played both sides of the IG-Whizzard matchup and it feels like Whizzard just stomps all over the corp, but maybe once you get good at playing the IG side you have a chance.
1 per deck, is the way to go. You can still play it, but in a different way ppl are playing it now (you need to add cards for recursion, not the same speed since you have only 1 museum…)
IG / Gagarin are a real problem, since they kill too many runner builds, too many tech cards are needed to play against them.
Hope FFG do something soon to fix this 
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This isn’t true. They need about as many “tech” cards to counter as a SEA-Scorch-Scorch deck does.
Probably about two will do it. And you won’t be in such a rush to find them as you would against that meat death deck.
Assuming you play Whizzard.
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You can counter Sea-Scorch with only 1 card and playing safe, nowadays many tier1 runner builds plays with 1 plascrete, tutors, and recursion with very good % of winning. Also, plascrete is neutral.
You cant play with 1 tech card against IG museum builds. Slums without councilman are weak, thanks to Lizzy, and even with councilman, you have to trash, face the damage from Hostile Infrastructures/bioEthics, you have to draw slums, since you can’t tutor it… Also 2 influence for a dead card against other tier1 builds is really bad, try to play criminal against museum builds without playing extreme builds (au revoir + feedback filter ie).
Sorry, but playing against Butcher tech isn’t the same lvl of exigence as this crap. I think the idea of Museums is good, but they designed a really awful card for the current meta.
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I also like the idea of making Museum one per deck. At one per deck, you pretty much have to pack Hades to have anywhere near a shot of the current crap that is out there, which seems fine. If you want to play that deck, play that deck and suffer the consequences of higher variance.
Uniqueness won’t fix Museum the same way that it did fix net pavilion, although it would definitely be a more elegant solution to the problem. With IG or gagarin, you could always have “two in the chamber”, ready to rez and put the museum back so that you could city hall the museum back out again next turn.
This does mean that a good runner could simply wait, money up and trash all three, but that also can be a tall order.
Either solution makes the card more manageable than it is right now though.
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I feel like limit 1 per deck and unique offers more guarantee of killing what’s fun about the card and less guarantee about killing what’s problematic with the card. If you put errata on the table (I prefer you don’t, ban is cleaner), I’d prefer to see the fun massive recursion stay intact, with recursion OF RECURSION gutted. So “Museum of History can never leave Archives while faceup”, or “When the runner accesses Museum of History, he or she may trash a card from his or her grip to remove it from the game”.
Green can fit net shield and feedback filter into 2 slots, which is a reverse lock if it’s a Mopus deck.
You still need 7 credits per turn, so you need something more than Mopus to sustain that shield against bioethics lock. Doable, but how will this affect you against other viable corp builds?
Mopus makes 8 credits per turn? I know, I know, we go to tournaments, we play Whizzard because we’re supposed to, our opponents cut Chronotype to the bottom after we shuffle. We forget.
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Every card has a potential counter. Saying: “Salsette Slums is pointless because Elizabeth Mills exists” is as silly as never playing any barriers in case they’ve got a Corroder. If she gets your slums, go and get her back with your Archives Interface (which I think is the most flexible of the “remove from game” cards). Net Shield isn’t half bad as a “tech card” either.
I’ve only played a single game against a MoH deck since the card came out. I was playing against Gagarin with my Leela. I only lost because I stopped focusing on sniping key assets and tried to dig RnD to close out the game and then everything got out of control. I’ve never once played against IG MoH.
I know it’s anecdotal, but my theory is that the reason IG MoH is so underrepresented despite being “massively op” is that the ultra competitive circles deemed it so before it ever gained momentum with the larger community and then that opinion of it went downstream from there.
I would like to actually play against this supposed monster of a deck to see for myself what its like, but it seems like it will get complained about until it’s either MWLd or banned into obscurity by FFG or the ANR community themselves. Which is a shame, imo. It’s a totally new deck archetype that completely turns the game on it’s head. I would like to at least, on principle, see this kind of deck be a viable option. And it seems like MoH is the one card that really gave it legs and pushed it into competitive territory.
It’s difficult for me to believe that this deck is uncounterable either by skilled play or a little tech, without playing Whiz. But then I’m not a super competitive player and I’ve never actually sat across the table from it. But it seems to me that by taking this deck to a tournament, you run the risk of the runner scoring a single point more than you and then the game going to time before you can lock in a victory. Is that itself not a check on it’s power level? And is it being a NPE for so many people not in itself a soft ban? Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to be presumptuous. I don’t pretend to know more about this game than anyone in this thread. I’m just trying to understand all the hate surrounding it.
I will happily play someone using this deck on Jinteki.net sometime so I can understand what its like.
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