While the lack of a “run” requirement on Best Defense is an point in the card’s favour over Power Shutdown already in my books, the real kicker for me - as @CrushU notes - is the element of who gets to choose the trash target:
Power Shutdown - The Runner trashes a program/piece of hardware with a cost <= cards trashed from R&D. Best Defense - The Corp trashes any installed card with a cost <= number of tags the Runner has.
To be sure, Power Shutdown has its advantages (outside of simply the Diagnostics combo), but I would strongly argue that Best Defense is substantially more useful in the majority of situations. Plus, post-Midseasons, Best Defense is beastly.
I think Best Defence should be good. I’ll be trying it in my HB as NRE tech to sure up Fairchild 3 and sentries which require more than just an Ice Carver.
Yeah, I think that credit denial, event-based ICE destruction (en passant and run amok), and DDoS seems like nice and not-super-janky synergy. Being able to get ice destruction without parasites frees up some precious influence for siphons (or keep the parasites and go nuts on ice destruction).
Err, yes ? Totally ? Like, 110% of the time ? And more if possible ?
That Midseason method asks some agenda stolen + more money than the runner to throw him in the face + not Boom + not Closed Account + Best Defense instead.
'grats : with no SE/Boom, you just made a worst deck with that card
To me, and that’s a “to me”, like the kind of “to me” of the guy who know how to do worst place in his country’s nat (so, not a random “to me”, quite the “to me” of a champ if you count 1st starting from the bottom, that’s it), so yeah, just play Bad Times instead ?
The one time en passant seems good to me only really applies to old school crim. run hq ice. rez? special order, breaker, siphon. no rez? en passant, siphon. but it seems a little late. perhaps an anarch siphon list? either way, i cant think of a situation where a derez and then en passant gives you a ton of value.
sorry if we have moved on to best defense. which i think is good to great in decks that want it. midseasons, nuke plascrete that you couldn’t burn through, something else?
[quote=“anon34370798, post:1691, topic:7403”]
Err, yes ? Totally ? Like, 110% of the time ? And more if possible ?
[/quote]you must lose a lot :3 #feelsbadman
you said X tags is harder to reach than X cards. sorry, but that’s just ridiculous given the amount of tags you can pile onto a runner, and trashing a pile of cards off of R&D is not a trivial thing unless you’re going to wombo combo out of it, and at that point, the salient part of playing PS is enabling the combo, not giving the runner the choice of 1 program or hardware to trash.
and you even said this:
also, why is my tag punishment deck automatically not including SE/Boom!? great strawman, dude! you totally got me by catching me on something i never even said one way or the other!
also, if it doesn’t include SE/Boom!, it can still be a good deck. there are plenty of other tag punishment cards.
To you, (you never finished this sentence… you just explained how you meant ‘to me’ to be read, so i don’t quite understand your point, but i understand fully what you meant when you said ‘to me’), you complained that Best Defence cost of 2 versus Power Shutdown’s 1, but Bad Times costs 4, so… MAKE UP YOUR MIND
also, Bad Times can get rid of hardware and resources? i must need glasses.
Best Defense is worst case destroy: SMC/Paricia/Inti/Sac Con/Faerie/Security Testing/Street Peddler/Scheherazade/Same Old Thing/Tech Writer. In most games at least one of those is installed, and a timely SOT snipe can be game decisive in preventing Levy.
Best case is probably destroy a breaker/Plascrete/Sports Hopper post tag-me, but it’s carte blanche for hardware/programs. Consoles. Interfaces. Viruses. Leprechauns. Clone Chips. Combo pieces.
It’s rarely dead, and in any deck that can give 3+ tags (especially a kill deck,) it’s amazing. And neutral. It will easily see play in tagstorm decks. In kill tagstorm, it will absolutely see play.
En Passant seems silly in Criminal where you can just play Forged Activation Orders. FAO -> Siphon or Siphon -> FAO seems much better than Siphon -> Run -> EP or Run -> EP -> Siphon and then 1 click left for clearing tags.
In Anarch, you can combo it with DDOS/Blackmail/Run Amok. Seems decent in Val, you can systematically destroy their ice without touching it.
Edit: Now that I think about it, it could be good in False Echo Val. Blackmail R&D -> EP -> EP accelerates setting up the combo.
All I said is I don’t understand, nobody plays PS, so why this one should be ok today ?
There’s a lot of cards that have somehow the same effect, like bad times somehow, or that Jinteki trace. They’re not played too, and for a reason I think.
Burying a runner under tag is something you can do, or fail, but reaching an exact target number or more tags seems hard to acheive to me.
If your aim is to remove a 0 card then PS seems to be a good choice. If your aim is to remove a X card, to me PS again is a better card.
Loyalty Jinteki stuff seems to me a better card. Bad Times is not. Power shutdown is a better card too. You can note there’s not much PS/SE decks in Weyland btw.
Now if your reasoning is “I can put Boom, SE, Best Defense, Midseason and HHN in the same deck, so what do you say”, I say “too bad you were not in France Nat, that would have been though competition with pretty people for the last place.”
(j/k)
That’s 1/3 of conditional deck. It’s never gonna work.
PS you don’t get to choose the card your opponent will trash.
BD will see play because it will be useful even in worst case scenario. Russian NEH or Sleeper Hold will play it just to be able to win easily vs clot/saccon (get rid of saccon). Attrition decks will play it to trash SoT to prevent levy… If the runner go tag me it’s just the cherry on top.
the correct word to finish this statement is “nothing”. It’s certainly good against certain archetypes (Security Testing + Street Peddler + Same Old Thing + Technical Writer + Spy Camera = don’t talk to me or my geist ever again) but against others (lets say Stimshop Chaos Theory) it’s going to have very few to no targets for the majority of the game.
I just want to say that Best Defense is another example of a card that should be Weyland, and probably 3 Influence. One of the things they could do to make Weyland good/scary again would be stuff like Best Defense that reaches out an touches the Runner’s stuff.
It is my opinion that when you sit down next to Weyland, it shouldn’t feel like a battle between you and them. It should feel like they’re coming for you, your family, your dog, and your father’s-brother’s-nephew’s-cousin’s-former-roommate.
3c - fly hammer - weyland
The runner trash at the same time one ressource, one hardware, one program and get one meat damage.
This event does nothing if a prevent effect is used during this operation.
Something like that, but a lot meaner. Obviously some caveats to make it balanced, though nasty all the same. Not sure if this would be too powerful, but this is what I have in mind:
Retributive Strike - 0c - Weyland w/No Influence Bar (In-Faction ONLY)
Play only if the runner scored an agenda last turn.
Trace 2 - If your trace strength is 5 or greater, chose one resource, hardware, or program and trash it. If successful, trash one of each type and do 3 meat damage.
If a trash is prevented when the trace is successful, prevent all trashing instead. “For some offenses, there is only retribution."
I think a part of the plan this cycle was to give everyone some teeth. And I think cards like pri-sec and best defense do go in that direction pretty well. However, it’s very dubious, IMO, that there’s no reliable neutral tagging mechanisms. A faction should be able to cohere and build a solid deck without being required to look out-of-faction for cards, but man, good luck ever making a Boom!/Scorched deck work with Hunter and Pri-sec.
I think that’s the core problem, really. Weyland does have cards with teeth. They definitely have the most teeth of any faction. But in order to make use of it they need to heavily invest in NBN. The same can’t be said about NBN; they have plenty of in-house mechanisms to capitalize on their tags, and Weyland cards are just icing on the cake.
So, I guess to summarize, I don’t think Weyland needs to be made into the “trashing” faction, exclusively. I think NBN needs to not be the “tagging” faction, exclusively.
