I don’t think this will be satisfactorily answered without a more specific ruling from Damon. I know game terms aren’t always parsed the same as the semantics of the English language, but I find it amusing that you might be able to “lose” something you don’t actually “have.”
Yeah I can see it going either way. You’re right it would seem oddly inconsistent with how losing works. Though, I also find the “losing” interaction weird too. Just because you can use something doesn’t inherently mean it’s yours to lose. But I don’t know how I’d concisely template it to infer ownership either (while making it obvious what you can do with that). Maybe “you own and can use credits on…”, but that sounds wordy and not sure it really provides much.
I don’t see how its any different to being forced to use ghost runner credits on tollbooth etc
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So, from the games perspective, it isn’t. I’m approaching it more from an English language perspective. Paying is active. To pay money is to use money. Losing is not active. To lose money is not to use it.
And I mean that’s not inherently a problem, so long as the game tells you what it means by its terms (IE: in Netrunner, losing is a form of using). If it doesn’t do this (as is the case), then it leaves you wondering how to interpret new mechanics (such as this example illustrates with has). Because I can use credits, do I have them? Are they mine? I don’t know.
I just realized you can use Cold Read to help trash unprotected resources without suffering any penalties and now the card seems ridiculously good.
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Does anyone have any neat ideas for an HB deck that uses Manta Grid? I’m toying around with the idea of Manta Grid, Mumbad Virtual Tour, Marked Accounts (for extra drop econ with a high trash cost), and 3x NAPD Contract in an HB:AoT deck that baits runners and then takes advantage of the click and credit taxes to get in. Probably needs Biotic in there for alternative FA strategies.
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Against an open remote, it’s a better Dirty Laundry with no up front cost.
With Net Mercur out in that situation, it is a Sure Gamble that lets you make a Run.
A fun experiment that came to my mind is classic RP with Manta Grids.
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i like Cold Read, but it does require trashing a program at the end of the run that cannot be prevented, so unless you find one early game before you’ve installed any programs, i’m not sure it’s strictly a better Dirty Laundry or anything else, really
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Cold Read only requires you trash a program used during the run.
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aHA, that’ll teach me to not read cards more carefully.
carry on all
I read that card like this since day 0…
So what happens when an offer you can’t refuse is directed towards a manta grid? Ooh, and if you had a Sundew on it the runner just HAD to trash that turn.
It’s Christmas time y’all
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You have tried Manta? I slotted it for a bit for funsies and wasn’t that happy with it.
I haven’t tried Manta Grid yet, but I thought maybe we as a group could crowdsource the shit out of this card. What goes good with Manta Grid? Cards that leave the runner with few credits at the end a run, and servers that are worth running at least once a turn, ideally more than once. I’m thinking Red Herrings and Ash, cause you either go through twice or you pay through the nose once. Virtual Tour seems good here too. Hourglass and this might be fun, install Hourglass, install Manta, see what happens? Is this just a convoluted way of getting more biotic labors in your deck?
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Heres my first stab at it. Just thrown it together in the last few hours, so completely untested as yet.
ETF: Manta FA
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future
Agenda (9)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
1x Efficiency Committee
2x Global Food Initiative ●●
3x Project Vitruvius
Asset (6)
3x Advanced Assembly Lines
3x Jackson Howard ●●●
Upgrade (5)
2x Cyberdex Virus Suite
3x Manta Grid
Operation (16)
1x An Offer You Can’t Refuse ●●●
1x Archived Memories
3x Biotic Labor
2x Enhanced Login Protocol
3x Hedge Fund
3x Lateral Growth
3x Shipment from SanSan ●●●
Barrier (4)
2x Eli 1.0 ★★
2x Vanilla
Code Gate (5)
1x Enigma
3x Fairchild 3.0
1x Hourglass
Sentry (4)
2x Architect ★★
2x Ichi 1.0
Playing FA/Rush will hopefully leave the runner poor trying to keep up and unable to trash the Manta Grids.
AAL Manta Grid onto the right server at the right time.
AOYCR is either 1 point or a Manta Grid trigger. I assume you just wouldnt get it until the turn after the runners next turn?
Probably don’t need 3 Manta.
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The actual problem with Manta Grid is that it has to survive the Runner accessing it for it to do anything. (Note that if you trash Manta Grid on the Run that it triggers on, it doesn’t actually do anything.)
Ash is great here. NAPD Contract is likely also pretty good. Putting Jeeves in the same server at least makes them spend 10 to get rid of both of them, so that sounds like fun, too…
So basically you’re trying to play like it was two years ago when lots of money actually did win you the game. 
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Probably never advance shenanigans? Get a cheap Biotic if they run on your bait cards. Then condition them to not run if they’ll end on less than 6 credits (if they’re at 5 and spend it all to trash Manta, aren’t you pretty happy then?) Then sneak in ABTs when they could get in, but not with enough credits to trash Manta.
I do have a feeling that it just makes it even worse for the runner to guess wrong, and doesn’t help you enough when he runs the right cards.
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I get that it needs to live to do it’s thing. I just think its ability is far too unreliable to build a scoring plan around. I feel like it probably works better as an extra hinderance for the runner with the abilty to accelerate your game if they mess up.
Playing it with Jeeves sounds good though. Makes it a difficult prospect for the runner to have enough money to trash both. I imagine it would keep Jeeves alive for longer than most defensive upgrades these days.
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