Flashpoint Cycle!

That’s also true, at the very least it’s kinda nice to have a way to compress your recovery from blackmail-en passant-en passant into fewer clicks than if you had to draw into 2 more bits of ice and replace them. Should make the couple of turns before you have the breathing room to purge medium a bit less rough, at least in HB

This isn’t bi-directional. Whizzard’s ability is strongly meta dependant. He is highly competitive because of the amount of asset spam in competitive corp-side decks. The trick to making whizzard disappear is adding variety to corp’s game plan. Improving what already works just makes people want to play what counters it even more (pigeonholing the game).

Need to buff the game plans that don’t work currently and try to make them viable, not improve what’s already working.

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Yes I agree with this, I wasn’t saying it’s appropriate to push asset spam further as the only way to win consistently as corp and if other strategies were strong then there would be less whizz and less asset spam. I just meant that you can’t look at the current meta and say “people are playing asset spam because it’s good, people are playing anarch because asset spam”.

The turn to whizz was definitely because asset spam was prevalent but it goes further than that now, the massive amount of anarch (let’s be real, it’s not even whizzard anymore, all the anarchs with rebirth and sufficient draw are basically the same ID) is keeping other strategies out of the meta because that generic ice-destruction + asset hate + rumor mill + card advantage + some siphons/temujins anarch deck that’s everywhere is also brutally effective against glacier.

Generally I agree that other strats need buffing into viability to encourage diversity but there are massive problem cards on both sides, not just corp (Sensies + CtM crushes anyone who can’t go tag me or be mega rich from turn 1, Rumor Mill and En Passant punish anyone who try and install ice and control the pace of the game). Whizz himself might not be cancerous but the anarch card pool more generally now…

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I’m curious about clauses like “if the runner has less than 6 credits” that come into effect during a run (e.g. Manta Grid). Maybe there’s been a ruling on this that I missed (or maybe it’s a translation issue and the English version will specifically mention a credit pool), but does anyone know how these interact with, say, Ghost Runner? Net Mercur? Stimhack?

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Friends in high places is another example of flashpoint cards that are being made a bit broad (see rumor mill).

I think a super interns for ice would have been great for the current meta of pressure and ice destruction but by having it get back anything it helps the decks already on top the most - when an effect is too broad its a rising tide for everyone, so why change archetypes?

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Right so I mean I definitely agree red cards and yellow cards are in too strong a place and something needs to be done about that, but I could put up with that if it wasn’t for the fact that a very strict sub-archetype of yellow cards was vastly stronger still, mandating an ID choice within the red cards.

At world’s, 7 of the top 8 corps were CtM. 7 of the top 8 runners were whizzard. There is only one game plan in competitive Netrunner right now. As much as I agree that NBN and Anarchs strength is an issue, it’s not on the same level as this problem.

Furthermore, solving this problem works towards solving the problem you have. CtM is likely the strongest asset spam ID. If glacier becomes relevant, there are better factions for glacier, for example’s sake.

Anyway, regardless of if you cut the problem as CtM vs. Whizzard being the issue, or NBN and anarch, the fact is this card works towards helping neither, which I think we agree on.

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I don’t think worlds ID composition is such a problem - with big stakes motivated players are going to funnel down to those 1% advantages (Plus I’d argue that siphon anarchs and temujin anarchs are different archetypes with different game plans).

If Store Champs sees nothing but CtM and Whizz winning, I’d consider that a bigger problem for the health of the game.

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I don’t know about this interaction specifically. Whenever the runner “loses” credits, it designates credit sources that can be used as valid targets (IE: hitting DNA with no credit in your credit pool and 6 on Net Mercer results in Net Mercer losing 6).

But do you “have” those credits? I’d argue not. They aren’t in your credit pool, which I think would be what is defined as “having”. Not sold on that though.

It would be the same interaction as Financial Collapse + Net Mercer, but I can’t find a ruling there.

First, the advantage Whizzard provides versus CtM (and CtM provides versus a non-asset spam strategy) is well beyond 1%.

Second, looking at SC’s is a little dubious IMO. People just avoid non-fun in non-competitive events. Hell I think there was a regionals deck floating around on nrdb that used Apex IIRC. Fun? Probably. Competitive? No.

If you’re going for gold, your game plan is clear. You don’t play that shitty HM deck that you went undefeated as during a GNK. You pick up 56 assets of your choosing that you can fit in a 12 influence yellow deck.

Except the point isn’t “only the pros would play Whiz/CtM” - at the point where everyone participates in the SC meta (because ANR is a small enough game that SCs are usually the only game in town), the pro bringing the best decks will produce NPEs for the random kid packing Apex and NEXT Design he gets paired against round 1. You think getting ground into putty by the cold, uncaring clutches of Hate Bear and Snek won’t affect someone’s view of the game as a whole?

(This gets into a bigger problem of the game not necessarily being big enough for both the pros and the casuals - there’s not really a “hardcore-only” level like for Magic - but at the very least, applying your banning policy with an eye toward the majority seems productive.)

The implications of killing a Runner with 0 hand size from Brain Damage with Curfew is just hilarious.

Go to bed, MaxX!!

dies

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That was my point (I agree than its more than 1%), I was trying to say that even if it was only a 1% edge the top players would find that and whatever deck is 1% above the field would be massively represented in the worlds cut.

In a long enough tournament (like worlds) even the small edges matter. Enrichment at worlds could be from a big or small gap in power. If it’s consistently over represented in smaller (and more heterogenous) events it’d be a stronger indication of raw power than the worlds cut in my opinion.

Did that happen in previous years? This year seemed different in these terms.

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In my local meta, nobody uses CtM. Period. Everyone knows the ID is straight bullshit, and playing it proves nothing. As a result, you will never see a SC deck come out of Halifax that is CtM or Whizzard. Is whatever jank wins actually better? No, certainly not. But just because players aren’t trying to make quilts out of free playmats doesn’t mean that these metrics should be used to obfuscate a real competitive problem.

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I think this year was actually similar. The big difference was that the two anti meta decks that made a splash were in the same factions as the meta decks they were tooled for.

Perhaps additionally, the anti meta decks came in fairly unknown (as I understand it) and so thier prominence hadn’t really been prepared for, which might have led to a couple of other strong decks showing up. This second point is all speculation though,

2015 results:

http://www.acoo.net/anr-tournament/802/worlds-championship-2015/

Top 8 2015:

Corp: 5 HB, 2 NBN, 1 Jinteki
Runner 5 Anarch, 2 Shaper, 1 Criminal

Compare to 2016:

Corp: 8 NBN (7 CtM)
Runner: 8 Anarch (7 whizzard)

Was 2015 bad? Sure there was imbalance, but at least there was representation across the board (excepting Weyland, naturally). 2016 not only was limited to a single faction, but practically a single theme within the faction.

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Anyway I’m realizing that I’ve, in part, derailed this thread pretty heavily.

We can all agree that a barrier that rezzes for 0 and takes 3 to break with clip is good right?

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It’s comforting that Whizzard won’t be making another appearance at Worlds 2017, at least. Unless something horrible happens with the release schedule and rotation gets pushed back.

It is, but unless there is something crazy in the pipe, asset spam has nothing to take it down a peg.

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