Quick update: I’ve played a few games with MCH/Heritage Committee yesterday. A few notes. First, the interaction is strong, providing both draw and filtering. Over four games I used one Jackson for rescuing agendas (and that was a game where I drew six agendas over four or five turns). Here’s a problem, though: it’s very slow, mechanically. Shuffling Museum, mandatory draw, then Heritage Committee + shuffle takes a chunk of time. I did not keep a stop watch but I estimate that Heritage Committee alone accounts for 5-7 minutes of game time, per game. Also, some/most players will not be aware of the interaction, which means another 2-3 minutes explaining it to them. This is an amount of time that I simply cannot afford in Museum Gagarin.
Mechanically, I would want to get more testing to decide whether Heritage is superior to DBS. If I’m playing in a Jinteki.net tournament for example, I suspect that Heritage Committee will be great. Unfortunately, given the time limit in real life events (especially the brutal 35m in elimination) I don’t think that it’s a relevant combination in a Gagarin score deck.
I only minutes ago posted something similar in the Seattle Netrunner group. This is a serious concern if players are considering going with MCG + Heritage. I like the interaction, generally speaking, and it’s strong, but it’s not a replacement for DBS, at all. It also tended to miss what I wanted (Diversified) more than hit what I wanted. If I was going to offer advice to players picking up MCH and wanting to do some sweet Heritage play in tournaments, it would be “don’t do it”. It’s not worth the time you will spend using it, and you will simply go to time. My games with Heritage + MCH would have easily gone to time, and I play fast.
On a related note: I was not altogether happy with MCH–the extra shuffling aside. Maybe playing a singleton is fine in a deck like Hidden Temple, so you can Jackson trashed Temples/Museums back then sneak them back onto the table really fast, but I felt horrible having all 3. They were taking up valuable slots, and they don’t help you win the game. Unless you have a deck that is built around MCH getting Museum and Temple online right away (and certainly they get better with the upcoming sets!), you can probably just draw into Museum/Temple normally during the course of the game.
What I see most players saying when evaluating the card is that it’s powerful because it’s an insane tutor for stuff. MCH is, no doubt, powerful for what it does. The trouble is, the faster you tutor out your stuff, the more vulnerable R&D becomes to Maker’s Eye + R&D Interface. And if there are no Turtlebacks on the board, MCH feels much less like value.
TL;DR
I would not play Heritage Committee + MCH in a tournament setting, and only with friends who don’t mind the slower pace.
Claims that Temple decks are too rich, and need less credits, have no grounding in reality.
Heritage is, in no way, a reasonable substitute for Daily Business Show.
[Edit: just to clarify, I had only a handful of games with it yesterday, so take these as they are: my opinions, not facts]
I played a few test games with 2 Diversified 3 Temple 3 Turtlebacks, and while I never felt like I was struggling for econ, I also never really felt 100% comfortable with my credit level either. I’d say that most games you only just barely have enough money to rez what you need to rez; it’s only when you get to critical mass and pull off a couple of big Diversifieds that the money really starts coming in.
I’ve gone to 3 Diversified for this reason; it’s fairly important to get the 4-5 cred burst in the early game, especially for a deck without Hedge Fund. That initial burst should set you up comfortably for the next few turns until your engine really gets rolling.
Let’s talk on April 10 Right now I’m not really sure whether I have brilliant ideas or whether I lost my mind. I’m going to take my new spin on Gagarin to a small tournament on Saturday and to the Cambridge regionals on April 9, and will know more then.
The biggest difference playing against cjfm last night was the amount of clicks he had to spend to establish and re-establish the engine. PADs and DBS require no clicks after their initial install. There is very little mystery with the city hall. I knew where to go to disrupt the engine instead of having to guess and potentially waste clicks and credits checking remotes. I don’t dispute the power level of the heritage portfolio engine but the PADs and DBS do their thing clicklessly and leave your other clicks free to build a scoring remote which speeds up the game considerably.
Was playing against a friends Gagarin deck last night, he was testing out the Political cards from Weyland and NBN as well as New Construction. Sensie Actors Union is absolutely bonkers with New Construction. He was consistently installing 2 new servers every turn while scoring out and maintaining a ton of money. One game he got to install and rez Corporate Town for free by over advancing New Construction, another time he got to install and rez The Root for free. I haven’t been so thoroughly beaten down in a long time.
Their pretty cool. They gain a lot of power with either ELP, or click compression forced through rush. I think they go hand in hand with Team Sponsorship.
Getting a rush deck to critical mass to exploit them is truly a win-more scenario, but most of the effect are bonkers. Imagine getting 2-3 of those Jinteki ones in RP or something with a Hostile rezzed.
Yup! I’m still largely sticking to my Ash based builds. I find they have a way better matchup against Shapers, plus it gives me something to do with the fat stacks of cash the deck makes. People have dropped Whizz around here for the most part, so I’m off Mills for the moment. For the time being I’m trying out the Heritage Committee bullshit, and it’s pretty fun, although shuffle intensive. Here’s where I’m at right now.
15 influence spent (max 15)
22 agenda points (between 22 and 23)
54 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Democracy and Dogma
Ash leaves very little in terms of Jinteki influence choices if I want to use the Committee bullshit, so 2x Lotus Field and 1x Junebug round it out after the Turtlebacks. The Junebug has been hilarious so far. It’s more cute than good, but it’s won a few games, so it’s in for now.
Finding 2x Ash in a 54 card deck is easier than it sounds, since once City Hall is up I can filter through the deck pretty fast by grabbing the Museums and Temples out, and then using Heritage nearly every turn. I don’t really like more than 2x Museum in the deck, since I never want more than 2 out anyhow, and finding them is trivial once City Hall comes online. Same with City Hall itself; I really only want 2, since every copy beyond the first is a dead draw. The third copy became Executive Boot Camp so I can find it if I don’t draw it. I probably want another copy of EBC in the deck as well to make drawing City Hall ever easier. It’s a really broken card. I’m really looking forward to the next data pack; I’ll probably switch over to a Jeeves powered deck using Team Sponsorship and Viper to bolster HB influence.
This looks great, dem bankers. Thanks for posting. I have a natural aversion to shuffling so much though. @bblum Wanna take on a deck-building challenge? How would you adapt your Blue Sun to Gagarin, theoretical post rotation style? Or would you pick another ID?
Yeah, I’m hoping with the next version I can bring it back down to 49 cards again. Museum is a super boring card, and I really hate being at 54 cards, but I really want to have lots of targets for City Hall, and right now that basically means Temple and Museum. Don’t want more than 1 Committee, since Museum and City Hall means I get to play 1 a turn if I want. Maybe somehow I can get Product Recall to work in the Jeeves version (or that Jeeves ends up being powerful enough on its own that I don’t need tons of City targets).
Seem like if you only want one Heritage Committee you could save yourself the two influence just by not forcing in the 3 extra Jinteki cards, though I do love the Junebug!
Right now I’m not really sure whether I have brilliant ideas or whether I lost my mind. I’m going to take my new spin on Gagarin to a small tournament on Saturday and to the Cambridge regionals on April 9, and will know more then.