Gagarin Appreciation Thread

whirrun · September 11, 2015, 4:00pm

Seems nice, do you find you have enough money to rez your taxing ice? It looks like you’d commonly be playing 2-4 points behind come the midgame. Does builder pull its weight?

kiv · September 11, 2015, 4:01pm

How’s Expo Grid been working out for you? I like it on paper but as a two-card combo it’s not always going to fire. Seems like Breaker Bay Grid would pay out faster in a lot of cases especially if you play The Root.

I like the Corporate Town idea as a way to interact with resources. Not so sure on Paywall when you have 10 agendas, do you know what your average Paywall nets you? Diversified Portfolio or Capital Investors could be a better choice.

I find Builder is too inconsistent unless you’re all-in on advanceable ICE, which you’re not. Good ol’ Enigma is better in that slot.

My best Gagarin games have been when I stick Daily Business Show. It gives you huge flexibility on finding the cards you need when you don’t have extra draw like NEH does. I know influence is tight but if you’re not sold on Ronald then DBS could be a strong use of those 3 inf.

whatisthistreachery · September 11, 2015, 4:27pm

@whirrun True, I often don’t rez a lot of ICE early. Typically my board looks like light HQ (with a Crisium), midrange R&D 5-10 credits, and a decent remote of 5-10 credits of ICE. Maybe a couple small pieces over a second remote. I’ve only rezzed Ichi 1.0 once out of the twelve games I’ve put in. Granted, it did some damage to decisions when they access it. My whole spiel was to use it as my Wormhole Trash Program without gimping myself on Nebula/Negotiator or forcing an Archer.

I really want to like Builder, but yea it’d be better suited an Wendigo or even better suited as an Engima. Idea was to make a nice 8 credit central with Fire Wall + Builder, and the ability to maybe move it. Included it mostly to test.

@kiv Expo Grid has been amazing. 3x would be too many but 2x feels great. It often is never trashed as you’d expect but that can often bite them in the rear as early as next turn. It often runs all game on a PAD or Team Sponsorship or protected Corporate Town., or even a nonthreatening Jackson. It easily nets me 4+ credits a game. My issue with BBG is that I don’t particularly search or rely on the Root. I often take it as a windfall and use it as a tax on the Runner or keep it handy as a Siphon dump. BBG would have no other targets. Expo Grid beats it out easily.

I’ve actially been recording Paywall! It pays 3-8 credits a play. It makes me not want to throw in the towel when Sec Testing hits or Imp. I think it’s easily worth its include and 3x really discourages running. So far, I haven’t had an issue with the current uptime and agenda density, as NAPD is really defensible in Gagarin. Capital Investors is great, I do see myself clicking for credits a few times a game, and it could be a better include than the Root. The Root is mathematically better but like you’d expect it never sticks. Good players will go for it and I’ll often break even and the Runner will be down 5. It’s not a fun Team Sponsorship target due to its cost while Capital Investors is an obnoxious Team Sponsorship bounce especially in denial matchups.

Totally right on Builder, I just wanted to like it

I often have about 2-5 remotes, I don’t think Diversified would be a good call. Public Support eventually goes, Jackson eventually goes, and sometimes things are trashed. Often I’ll be left with a PAD or two, and maybe a Team Sponsorship/Ronald Five, but often a win. I think the deck is like 7-3, losing to Gang Sign Leela twice and Crescentus Vamp PPVP Kate.

moistloaf · September 15, 2015, 8:54pm

I am finally going to start playing some Gagarin to get some real empirical evidence of where it stands. Here is my first build.

###[Gagarin Shell][1] (49 cards)

[Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon][2]

Agenda (11)

2 [Chronos Project][3]
3 [NAPD Contract][4]
3 [Oaktown Renovation][5]
3 [Project Atlas][6]

Asset (10)

3 [Jackson Howard][7] •••
3 [PAD Campaign][8]
3 [Public Support][9]
1 [The Root][10]

Upgrade (5)

1 [Ash 2X3ZB9CY][11] ••
2 [Breaker Bay Grid][12]
1 [Crisium Grid][13]
1 [Cyberdex Virus Suite][14]

Operation (5)

3 [Hedge Fund][15]
2 [Interns][16]

Barrier (5)

1 [Changeling][17]
1 [Hadrian’s Wall][18]
3 [Spiderweb][19]

Code Gate (6)

2 [Crick][20] ••••• •
3 [Quandary][21]
1 [Tollbooth][22] ••

Sentry (6)

2 [Archer][23]
1 [Architect][24] ••
1 [Assassin][25]
2 [Tour Guide][26]

ICE (1)

1 [Excalibur][27]

Didn’t want to waste slots on kill threat. Personally I feel it isn’t worthwhile in this meta.
First two games:

lost to @Zolend playing Val DLR. I managed to get to 4 or 5 points, but late game was brutal.
Second game was a victory against Geist, something similar to @linuxmaier 's build, although I never saw any Crescentus. Interns basically won me that game. an early Chronos removed 2 Spikes, after which I started scoring behind 2 Spiderweb.

Thoughts so far:

As expected, this ID feels fragile. If the Runner can effectively clear your remotes without losing too much steam (Whizz/Val/Imp/SecTest), it takes nothing short of a miracle to win.
Influence goes way too quickly. I realize my second Crick is questionable; my thinking was I want to see one by mid-game to seal off Archives with 1 piece of ICE. Second Crick could become second Architect to save an influence, but even when your PADs stay up, this deck is never particularly rich.
Interns is MVP, as expected. Finding room for a third might be worthwhile.
Hadrian’s probably needs to go. Could be Wormhole. Honestly not sure why I put Excalibur in there. That may become a Chimera, to push those last counter Public Supports.
Second BBG can be bluffed as all kinds of things. In my Geist game, I installed the second BBG in my scoring remote that already had BBG in it (which also had been a bluff, securing a scoring window). Ideally you use one BBG with The Root, but they are useful for all sorts of things: bluffing as Ash on scoring/RND, bluffing as Crisium, bluffing as Atlas.
I would definitely like to have DBS. Not sure what to cut, both slots and influence feel tight.
I’m not running Diversified Portfolio because it is rarely going to net you more than Hedge. This deck can have issues recovering from sub-5c range, but I can’t find the room for Beanstalk.

linuxmaier · September 15, 2015, 9:43pm

Hah, saw I was namechecked here and started tearing my brain apart to figure out when I’d played against Gagarin recently before I noticed you said it was someone playing something like mine. Gotta stop playing Jinteki.net late at night.

moistloaf · September 15, 2015, 9:59pm

fixed ^____^

linuxmaier · September 15, 2015, 10:00pm

It lets me play Netrunner on a 6 year old laptop running lubuntu. Used to run OCTGN through wine and it was a pain, and I don’t want to run a Windows VM. I do wish the level of play was a bit higher on Jinteki.net, though.

whatisthistreachery · September 16, 2015, 12:45am

EDIT: Just realized I posted in this thread earlier, instead of the Untested Decklist. My apologies! I did make some big changes per @kiv and @whirrun

I’ve been having phenomenal success with my Gagarin list, put in about 20 games or so and it’s about 14-6 on OCTGN with a few Stimhackers and decent players sprinkled in. Modestly speaking, I feel a direct contrast to your opinion - I feel in control all the time with this deck, even against Val, Sec Testing, or Whizzard. I usually don’t, and have had a bad history with Gagarin. It folded to @Calimsha 's DLR Val with good play and timely Siphons, but it’s about 6-1 in total vs. DLR decks due to Corporate Town, as well as about 4 other concedes from resource heavy decks. The Future is Now is key in its use.

Sports, Space, and Suburbs

Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon (Order and Chaos)

Agenda (10)
1x High-Risk Investment (Order and Chaos)
1x Hollywood Renovation (Old Hollywood)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
2x The Future is Now (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Asset (11)
1x Capital Investors (The Valley)
1x Corporate Town (Chrome City)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) [color=#FF8C00]••[/color]
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
2x Public Support (The Universe of Tomorrow)
2x Team Sponsorship (The Universe of Tomorrow) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]

Upgrade (6)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) [color=#8A2BE2]••••[/color]
1x Crisium Grid (First Contact)
2x Expo Grid (The Universe of Tomorrow)
1x Marcus Batty (The Underway) [color=#DC143C]•••[/color]

Operation (6)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Paywall Implementation (The Spaces Between)

Barrier (7)
3x Fire Wall (Order and Chaos)
2x Ice Wall (Core Set)
2x Spiderweb (The Underway)

Code Gate (3)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Wendigo (First Contact)
1x Wormhole (Order and Chaos)

Sentry (6)
1x Archer (Core Set)
1x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set) [color=#8A2BE2]••••[/color]
2x Tour Guide (The Universe of Tomorrow)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Universe of Tomorrow

Let me know what you think of the differences. I like Chronos Project but ultimately I found the ability to tutor Ash Batty Crisium Corporate Town or Archer to be far more valuable. Also, Team Sponsorship feels far superior to Interns when you can afford it.

warpchy · September 16, 2015, 12:57am

I shall build it and try it out. I also kinda wanted to get more out of Hollywood Reno, but High Risk scored is just that much more useful.

Saan · September 16, 2015, 2:01am

How has Tour Guide been working out? I kinda like the idea of a hard ETR Sentry in Weyland, but I haven’t actually tried it out yet. I’m kinda afraid that it will just die to all the parasites out there, but I suppose that something’s gotta die to them, and at 2c it’s not like you spent a bunch to rez it.

cmcadvanced · September 16, 2015, 5:53am

Did you put bbg facedown with the other bbg face up? That’s a big no no man.

warpchy · September 16, 2015, 6:22am

Well the one game I got in this night was Nasir doing Beach Party/Game Day Faust, and miscalculated a few plays. Ran Oaktown over NAPD, considering Film Critic is a thing, the money Oaktown gets you is silly. Forgot to ice Corporate town, so two Paricias took care of that. Team Sponsorship worked. Expo was working too. Didn’t get to rez Tour Guide, but at the point in the game I had it out only things up were Team and an Ice’d Jackson.

cmcadvanced · September 16, 2015, 7:23am

I think tour guide is either really good, or parasite food. But I bet it’s really good when it’s doing something

PaxCecilia · September 16, 2015, 1:42pm

This is what I’ve been playing:

surprisingly results gagarin

Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon (Order and Chaos)

Agenda (11)

3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Oaktown Renovation (Chrome City)
3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
2x The Future is Now (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Asset (16)

3x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
2x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)
3x Public Support (The Universe of Tomorrow)
2x Team Sponsorship (The Universe of Tomorrow) ••

Upgrade (3)

3x Expo Grid (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Operation (3)

3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)

Barrier (6)

2x Fire Wall (Order and Chaos)
3x Ice Wall (Core Set)
1x Spiderweb (The Underway)

Code Gate (4)

2x Crick (Breaker Bay) ••••• •
2x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••••

Sentry (6)

3x Errand Boy (The Source)
3x Tour Guide (The Universe of Tomorrow)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Universe of Tomorrow

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

I’m not sure if it’s a great decklist, but I’ve had a lot of good games with this. Maybe it’s just my local scene being so hesitant to go trash my asset economy as Gagarin, but I was able to make my centrals taxing and my scoring remote too expensive to get into. Tour Guide is a total beast if they aren’t running Parasite, and costs a ton unless they’ve got Faerie or Switchblade.

Team Sponsorship + Public Support is pretty much the whole point of the deck, and I’m finding it to be the easiest choice for free installs. Expo Grid is pretty solid too, however I’m not entirely sold on it. They were working and giving me a hell of a economic boost, but I think that savvy players will be trashing my asset economy more aggressively.

kiv · September 16, 2015, 2:04pm

I’m having a tough time seeing 2x Crick as the best use of 6 influence compared to anything that defends the remote or R&D.

When I play Gagarin it seems like Archives isn’t relevant at all for anything so I’m not sure why it needs to be locked off.

I do like the use of The Future Is Now, it seems more consistently good than Chronos (through Chronos has some blowouts).

Corporate Town has my interest too, previously I was too worried about it being dead against Kate to play it, but with the amount of Wyldside going around these days it’s probably its time to shine.

PaxCecilia · September 16, 2015, 2:11pm

Crick was marginally useful against a criminal player with Security Testing early on, but I agree. It’s 6 influence tied up in a gear check. Removing Crick is absolutely on the top of my list of improvements, and I think freeing up 6 influence and 2 cards will help me make this a lot more solid.

Yeah, The Future is Now is really good. I was using it to grab Public Supports and slam them on to the table

steve_houston · September 16, 2015, 2:43pm

I think the Scorch plan really gives Gagarin the teeth it needs–especially combined with DBS. Have people been having luck with vegan Gagarin? I’ve been blown off the planet once or twice and have likewise perpetrated said murder with something like this. Still testing and tweaking. Would be nice to get Ash in here somehow to make actually scoring agendas reasonable.

Gagarin Deep Space: Expanding the Horizon

Agenda (10)
1x Hades Fragment
1x High-Risk Investment
3x Oaktown Renovation
2x Posted Bounty
3x Project Atlas

Asset (17)
1x Blacklist •
1x Contract Killer
2x Corporate Town
2x Daily Business Show ••
3x Jackson Howard •••
3x PAD Campaign
3x Public Support
2x Turtlebacks ••

Upgrade (3)
3x Expo Grid

Operation (8)
3x Diversified Portfolio
3x Scorched Earth
2x SEA Source ••••

Barrier (5)
2x Hive
2x Ice Wall
1x Meru Mati

Code Gate (3)
2x Enigma
1x Tollbooth ••

Sentry (3)
1x Archer
1x Rototurret •
1x Tour Guide

kiv · September 16, 2015, 2:56pm

I’ve found that strong players just won’t die unless you do something extremely unexpected. Generally Kate can out-money you and be safe while locking the remote, Noise can Imp your combo out, and other Anarchs are a nightmare to kill through IHW with just a double Scorch.

Honorable mention to those Geist players that play Forger or Decoy and don’t care at all about SEA Source.

I actually really liked the Chairman Hiro in @crunchums build higher in this thread because it was that unexpected thing that they didn’t plan for.

whatisthistreachery · September 16, 2015, 4:02pm

Compiled a little report from yesterday on the stronger players/decks and the day before where I put in about 15 more games. Went 11-4 (I can’t count! Lost to a Quetzal Siphon Keyhole as well) and thought I’d put a few highlights in. Went against a variety of decks and had some intense games.

Four different Sunny’s: Reliably managed to get a Corporate Town going by turn 5 in almost all games, absolutely crushes most builds with resources. Spiderweb and FIrewall cost them a lot to break alone, next to Corporate Towns 6 trash cost and maybe an Ash there was no hope. One Sunny did beat me, with a Magnum Opus alternate economy and a great Modded Security Nexus start. We did a rematch and I evened it out. (This was before I put in Batty)

Adam: Spiderweb and Tour Guide are huge pains for him. Once again, Corporate Town up by turn 4-6 can spell his loss. This happened and I closed it out with NAPD Atlas 3-pointer. (Before Batty). Adam is very scary vs. Fire Walls and Wormhole with his ABR though. Luckily my HQ is almost always empty.

LFJ Whizzard: I secured a Pad + Expo, he thwarted my Corp Town attempt by breaking his back and I secured HQ/R&D. Made a scoring server with Spiderweb + Ichi + Batty and managed to trash his Corroder. Corporate Town comes back and even Whizzard stopped checking remotes due to everything costing 2c and Paywall. He vamps me as I’m scoring a High Risk but its still too much for him to get. I weave in a Team Sponsorship Batty back after the 3-pointer and it guarantees my next Atlas.

Reg Ass MaxX: Lost, very good play by the MaXx player who barely thwarted the Corporate Town. Faust allowed her to bypass my credit tax on ICE to pay for it. She had to Levy twice and it was a real slog, but she managed to take down my remote with my feigned High Risk as an NAPD. I kept recurring the Corporate Town and I think I got a good 12 credits and an Imp token out of it alone, without ever rezzing it.

PPVP Kate: Played against a fellow Stimhacker, and after game 1 they were very interested in the deck and we did a set of 3. Gagarin took all three games. Amazing games all around, two of them were slogs down to the last ten cards in R&D. Kate tried a lot of strategies involving going for remotes, not going for remotes, etc. Batty was great in two of the wins. Ash can still stop Kate, and I even stopped her after Stimhacked runs on my remote. Datasucker farming was aggressive purged while I gained credits from Paywall. The worst game was the one where she did not check remotes (and tired, it was 1 AM), and Team Sponsorship kept throwing Batty and Crisium back on R&D and I gained a ton of credits from spending leftover clicks on Capital Investors.

No Criminals these past few days, but usually Corporate Town starts wrecking their resources and they go broke trashing it. Crisium on HQ, the normal drill. Geist weeps when he sees a Fire Wall. I also managed to trash about 15 things hosted on a testing players DLR Val deck.

linuxmaier · September 16, 2015, 4:15pm

Sec Testing Criminal/Anarch seems like it might be tricky. I played against a Quetzal last night who got two sec testings installed turn 1! Still won, but if it was whizzard or Val I think I’d be hosed.