Asset control is one of my biggest problems in my current Hayley. I’ve not been able to figure out how to support the memory for paricia easily. Your list is also more robust in the presence of tags (I’m DOA w/o Aesop’s).
I think I might give it a try (was about ready to bail on Hayley).
My pre mwl builds slotted 1-2 scrubbed which helped. I was in a similar place to @voltorocks. The only thing you really want to install a lot of is resources, so weirdly she’s the best resource shaper ID even though you’d think it’d be programs or hardware that would make a shaper happy.
Plays into casts etc
yeah, oddly the paricias got added in as 0 cost programs to replace harbingers when the MWL hit, but so far they’ve been doing tons of work, I don’t know how I got by without! That said, late game I will generally abandon them for multithreaders (unless the corp is playing extremely horizontal).The heart of the deck is that thanks to aesop there are only about 4 dead draws (2nd and 3rd aesops and procons, both of which are so much better early it’s worth it) so the draw->install->aesops carousel never really stops.
[quote=“gumOnShoe, post:244, topic:3752”]
The only thing you really want to install a lot of is resources, so weirdly she’s the best resource shaper ID even though you’d think it’d be programs or hardware that would make a shaper happy.
[/quote]in general I agree with you, and in the bast I would try to focus heavily on resources (or hardware, or programs, depending on the build) to maximise hayley, and avoid putting in other card types. However, more recently I’ve been trying for more of an equilibrium between the three, meaning no matter what I draw there’s almost always an option for a hayley install. cache/harbinger/paricia/multithreader also mean there’s pretty much always programs you want to install; by the time memory gets tight, aesops will have scrapped them anyways.
aaalll that said, I think it’s fair to say that resource econ is hot right now, and it’s one of the few things hayley unequivocally does better than kate, and one of my primary reason for building this deck.
The deck looks kind of slow to me. I’d get rid of the multithreaders and extra mem, and go 2x astro for console.
I can recommend bankjob to trash assets. Gives you good money, aesop the card with last credit on it. Or Imp, as you can sell an empty imp and then clone it back.
If there’s an id that’s well suited to run procon, it’s Haley. Still, I’ve gone back to earthrise and diesels, it’s faster, more consistent, but less maximum power I think.
Modded is always great with so many targets, even as a 1x
I think it’s a mistake to not run lady when you have aesop.
I don’t feel HQI is worth the influence, better run datasucker or so to have them spend some ice on HQ.
I run mimic and net ready eyes. Since you already want 2 plascretes, vs non meat damage decks you can install plas and then the eyes. Next eyes you install you take 1 meat and 1 plas counter. Then you aesop the plas with 1 counter.
Just some things I found that work for me. All in all, there’s plenty ways to go with Haley, I really love this id.
Is there a 7th Event or did it get removed at some point in tweaking?
Also, how necessary is the singleton Harbinger? I like the idea of Harbinger but the flipping aspect chewing up her ID ability makes me wonder if that 1 influence could go towards a 3rd Clone Chip instead.
I’d be tempted to cut the singleton Harbinger and a Multithreader and #SlotTheClot. The scariest deck for me right now is NEH Fastro, and while Paricia will do work in that matchup, I feel like it won’t be fast enough reliably. But that’s also just looking at the list on paper, I admit.
oh yeah, there was, forgot to change that! I accidentally copy/pasted an old version then edited the list by hand.
re: harbinger. pre-MWL I ran 3 actually, and they do great work (I’m currently testing out 2 each of Harb and cache, though i suspect cache is still better). the anti-synergy with hayley isn’t really an issue; there are plenty of turns when I know i just want to draw or money up, and you’re in no rush to pawn it since it’s zero mem. 6 credits for a fraction of a click is frickin nuts, and being able to trigger hayley on a program without stressing memory is also nice (this being its main advantage over cache).
on the flip side, clone chips aren’t that super critical to this deck (part of the reason I think it’s so well positioned in an MWL environment). most often I use them as extra SMCs while setting up, or as batty insurance. I think if you wanted to cut harbinger, you’d be better off spending that influence somewhere else (maybe also cut a multithreader and bring in a drive-by or clot?).
EDIT:
[quote=“Brodie, post:248, topic:3752, full:true”]
I’d be tempted to cut the singleton Harbinger and a Multithreader and #SlotTheClot. The scariest deck for me right now is NEH Fastro, and while Paricia will do work in that matchup, I feel like it won’t be fast enough reliably. But that’s also just looking at the list on paper, I admit.
[/quote]beat me to it while I was typing! I’ve been thinking about this, and it’s definitely on my list of things to test. with paricia the fastro matchup isn’t actually all that bad, but it definitely is the toughest matchup.
I will say that I think the deck is a lot faster than it looks on paper. the hayley tempo advantage is hard to express numerically but it is significant, and the deck definitely moves quicker than it seems like it should. I really need to test against the new MWL crop of fastro decks though - hard to say what’s going to shake out once people are pushed off the full architect/eli/biotic suite by the MWL.
That’s really interesting, thanks for the explanation. I was thinking Clone Chip to pull back a Cache on the Corp’s turn, trigger her ID ability and then sell the empty Cache to Aesop’s on your turn, but the MU is definitely something to consider.
I’m a big fan of Pawnshop Hayley. That’s what I’ve been doing since she was released. It’s really good and is the shaper ID that keeps getting better. In this meta, Parcia is amazing or at least it’s been pre-MWL. Usual worst case is a click-free Easy Mark.
I’ve dropped Sure Gambles from my list a while ago. I’d recommend that you switch them to Modded or add more cheap installs to use Hayley’s ability and Aesop’s. Your non-resource installs are either 3 or more (except Corroder) or 0-1, so you can use Modded for efficient use of Hayley’s ability.
I’d also suggest you try Technical Writer instead of Armitage.
great advice - I had originally (long, long ago) tried including both, and dropped modded for deckslots and b/c of it cluttering an already full hand. Sure gamble is definitely a weak link in the deck right now (though oh-so-fine turn one ofc…) and you make some really great points comparing the two, so I will definitely have to give this a shot.
[quote=“tvaduva, post:252, topic:3752, full:true”]
I’d also suggest you try Technical Writer instead of Armitage.
[/quote]tried and discarded. TW is mathamatically a more efficient card, and can produce huge returns, but it further backloads the power-curve of the deck. I’ve found it indispensable to have a way to get cash right away when you need it, especially early to fight tough rush attempts. Iif I had a spot open up I;d consider going 2 and 2 on these cards, but so far I think the armitages have pulled their weight.
I too am addicted to Hayley. The Pawnshop builds are a ton of fun to play and force me to think about every decision I make. I am not sure she is top tier and I still have a lot of learning to do but I enjoy the ID regardless.
Here are my two builds:
Hayley Shop w/ Chameleon: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/516259
Hayley Shop:http: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/539850
Can’t view the decks.
So since we can’t see @Varren’s stuff, here’s the Chameleon Hayley Pawnshop build I’ve been trying out this week. So far it’s done surprisingly well, with most losses coming from play errors from trying out a deck type I’m unfamiliar with (and the occasional general cockiness).
Hayley Kaplan: Universal Scholar (Breaker Bay)
Credit where it’s due, this is a modified version of a deck called The Novelist from a Netrunnerdb dude named turtle. I changed it to be playable vs Astrobiotics (kinda? Need to play against it more) with Clot/Clone Chips, have a win condition vs Butcher with the inclusion of Plascrete, and make it MWL compliant. I also threw in a couple Workshops because I think it’s bonkers to not include them, especially in Hayley. They were going to replace Tech Writer, but I wanted to see how that would do as well. I compromised and went to 46, using 2 of each. I’ll see which wins my affections.
I’m trying this out of Hayley rather than Kate mainly because I want to see which ends up being the better pick. Kate makes more money, but Hayley shits out installs like there’s no tomorrow, which also can fuel Tech Writer faster. I’ll try out both IDs, and I’ll see which I prefer.
I know the Harbinger/Pawnshop combo has anti-synergy with Hayley’s ability, but is has such good synergy with the rest of the econ package that I’m willing to look past it for now. Getting 7 bucks for a single install (that I’ll often get off the back of another install anyhow) has almost always been worth it. Other than that, the econ package seems fairly smooth. If it’s a matchup where I don’t need Clone Chips (no Parasite, sadly), I can turn them into 5-7 bucks cloning back Cache/Harbinger.
Inti is a real shitter of a card, but I can not afford influence for Lady, plain don’t want Corroder (also, influence), but need an answer to Wraparound that isn’t Atman 7. So Inti is in. Most of the time, Inti turns into Sure Gamble through Scheherazade/Pawnshop, so it’s still kinda okay, actually. Hell, a lot of the time SMC gets turned into a Gamble. Lots of Pawnshop cash in here.
Sahasrara is another card that I included, thinking “This’ll probably be cut super fast,” but has grown on me. A lot of the time, I’ll have 1 copy of Chameleon on a Workshop and another in hand. I’ll make a run, install the Chameleon from the Workshop with real money, and install the Chameleon from hand using Hayley’s ability using the Sahasrara cash, often times getting a buck from Scheherazade. I do this a lot, actually. It’s happened often enough that Sahasrara keeps it’s place. Plus, it can also be used for those sweet, sweet Cache installs, getting yet another buck.
So far the deck feels okay. I’m not at all sure it’s competitive at the highest levels, but I figured I’d throw it through the ringer to see how it feels. It might just be better with actual breakers rather than the Chameleon shit, but once you’re set up, Chameleon feels amazing. It’s just getting there that’s the important part.
Major downside, though. This deck has too many cards that are basically spelled “Sharahashahzhahra.”
I picked this deck and changed a little bit.
Without levy you start to have no economy so I add data folding that love chameleon so much.
Don’t want many events in an Hayley Deck so no more gamble.
Put out sahasrara, so we have always in the game enought MU to activate DF.
Order of sol becouse yes, can be changed in Daily Cast or another economy.
Hayley Kaplan: Universal Scholar (Breaker Bay)
Event (7)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
2x Quality Time (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Scavenge (Creation and Control)
Hardware (11)
2x Astrolabe (Up and Over)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]☆☆[/color]
3x LLDS Processor (True Colors)
1x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
3x R&D Interface (Future Proof)
Resource (10)
3x Aesop’s Pawnshop (Core Set)
3x Data Folding (Order and Chaos)
1x Order of Sol (First Contact)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)
Icebreaker (5)
1x Atman (Creation and Control)
3x Chameleon (The Underway)
1x Inti (Creation and Control)
Program (12)
3x Cache (The Spaces Between) [color=#4169E1]•••[/color]
1x Clot (The Valley) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
1x D4v1d (The Spaces Between) [color=#FF4500]••••[/color]
2x Harbinger (Data and Destiny) [color=undefined]••[/color]
2x Scheherazade (Second Thoughts) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
13 influence spent (max 15-2=13)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Data and Destiny
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Sorry about posting non public decks…clearly I was a bit too tired yesterday. Here are the public links:
Chameleon: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/30647/hayleyeon
Non chameleon: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/30635/hayley-cache
@Saan it is interesting to see how similar our decks are. I should note that mine was inspired by a deck @gumOnShoe put together. How are you liking PW? I found it a bit slow but that could be just my lack of skill and not using it effectively enough.
@soulraiden I think the ideas of data folding is a really interesting idea in the chameleon deck, I might have to steal that!
From what I can tell I posted one of the originals (lead to the novelist), I’ve found armitage to be much better than Data folding, as the payout and burst potential are better, and with levy 2 is fine. Data folding just slows down an already slow to get rolling deck. My original is here: Cachemeleon · NetrunnerDB and it has a link to the updated. Since the MWL I’ve sorta dropped it but I updated a bit last night actually: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/541879 testing wasteland over clot and another chip + 3rd peddler.
Data Folding works in a Chameleon deck, sure, but it’s still one of the slowest and worst econ cards in the game. Daily Casts would almost certainly be better, even though it’s a finite source of money, since you’re guaranteed to get 5 credits out of them in 4 turns (and 7 with Aesop’s over 3 turns). Data Folding takes 8 turns to pay out 5 credits, which is just abysmally slow. I’d certainly rather add a Levy than go the Data Folding route in the name of continuing econ. In fact, I might go @x3r0h0ur’s route and go down to 1 Astrolabe so I can get the deck space to do so. I could see dropping the Gambles in the name of Daily Casts, though, for more Hayley synergy, but I don’t have that many Resources in the deck to use her off of anyhow (since I only install Aesop’s once), so I’m not sure it’s really an upgrade to do so. It’s more credits, but at a slower speed. Also, I’m not sure what Order of Sol is doing in the deck at all, since I’m basically never at 0 credits.
I really, really like it. I don’t host everything on it, and still will install things from my hand if I need them out sooner. Mainly, I found that with a Chameleon deck I had to do one of two things when running: either I would have to face check every piece of face down ICE so I knew what ICE type to call for my Chameleons when I install them, or I’d have to install them and simply guess what the ICE type was, hoping I was correct before making my run. Workshop saves me from having to do this. Now I can have a Chameleon hosted, either from this turn or from last turn, and make the run. When the ICE is rezzed, I pull Chameleon off the Workshop and it’s ready to go, keeping me from having to fly blind. This has the added benefit I mentioned in my original post of also letting me use my Hayley install from hand if I want to throw out a second Chameleon for another already rezzed ICE.
As I said over this thread, I think Wasteland is really nice with Hayley Pawnshop:
I’d recommend trying out DaVinci (maybe over SOT). It enables Hayley’s ability and Wasteland(s) on the Corp’s turn, and it can install resources. Peddler is also good for those same reasons.