Honor and Profit announced!
Honor and Profit announced!
Overall, a ton of new cards. What do you guys think?
I’m really excited by this, but at the same time hugely disappointed that Anarch aren’t getting any love. Having said that, HB were ahead going into C&C but somehow fell back to third place despite getting their own box.
Initial thoughts: I love some of the new Jinteki stuff! Until now, the problem for the Corp is that the runner can see R&D before them - there’s no need to play guessing games in remotes when you can just dig R&D. Jinteki don’t really have the agenda-scoring speed to threaten anything in remotes, which means their traps are useless and will only really hit weak runners.
However, it looks like Jinteki might be entering the Fast-Advance market. The new ID implies there might be enough potential to try and race the runner. Mushin No Shin now makes their agenda scoring potential much greater, which in turn empowers their traps. That card is awesome value and I think we’ll see it abused with Accelerated Diagnostics.
Oracle May is awesome, clear combo with Motivation. The runner run events are decent. Not sure about the breakers and grappling hook though - I guess it depends what new ICE we see (they spoiled nothing we didn’t already know about) and whether criminals can afford not to run remotes. I think breach is a good replacement for Corroder (and presumably then Datasucker) to save influence.
Silhouette looks fun. If running HQ gets a push then she (and Gabe) could peg back on Andromeda. Would she make Blackguard viable? Jury’s still out…
Chairman Hiro = the nuts in a kill deck. He’s really expensive to trash too so he’s probably reasonably safe a lot of the time.
Mushin No Shin. Good. Lord. I’d like 3 free advancement counters, please. Can I put 9 of those in a deck? Pretty please?
Early Bird looks solid. 1 credit for a click is a good deal. Sure makes Bioroids cry.
Harmony Medtech. Way to change the game, FF. Interesting…
Medical Breakthrough. 3rd one is a 2/2, which could easily win you the game later on. Have to think about replacing Braintrust with this.
Chairman Hiro. Cool effect. Be fun to res this after the runner draws up to 5 with their last click. Runner has to trash this, but is it worth it to force them to pay 6? Haas will win you the game if left untouched, not sure if Hiro will.
If there isn’t a code gate breaker in the Alias/Breach line and we’re supposed to use Leviathan, I’m going to be furious, because those two breakers are a really cool idea. I still don’t like how vulnerable R&D is, so I guess I’m actually not particularly thrilled about super-efficient central-server-only breakers. Hmmm.
I think I love Medical Breakthrough most of all for the fact that it still works for the corp even when the runner nabs it.
I love these cards.
So, it seems that Ken “Express” Tenma will be another Criminal Identity… I wonder who’s the third.
You can see Ken riding his bike on Early Bird, and the quote refers to Tenma clones. And you can see him (full figure) on the Deluxe page. I guess he’s like an “express courier” or something alike.
Kinda reminds me of Kaneda (from Akira)… big bike, red jacket…
Mushin no Shin seems like the Jinteki version of Shipment from SanSan, and it might do wonders used on Plan B. And you could always use the good old Trick of Light in case the Runner doesn’t access it.
Grappling Hook is also very interesting… even if most of the time it would mean getting hurt or risking a Tag, it’s definitely a cheap way of getting through!
Early Bird introduces a new mechanic which can make Hard at Work useful in future.
I think I’m going to go against the grain here and say that I dislike Medical Breakthrough. If you think about it, the going rate for an agenda is 3/2 or 4/2 - and in every other faction you get an ability with that (even if it’s an optional one that you might not necessarily use). Now consider Medical Breakthrough: the first is essentially a 4/2 blank and the second is a 3/2 blank. Only the very last one gains any kind of benefit, but you receive it if and only if the previous two have already been scored - which is by no means a guarantee.
So to my mind the first two “Breakthroughs” are strictly worse than equivalent agendas, while the final one gains a small edge but will only see play a small percentage of the time. Is Jinteki’s agenda selection so poor that we’re valuing a new agenda that’s worse than anything available to other corp’s as better than Jinteki’s current options?
In practice, many 4/2s and 3/2s are already blank under normal circumstances. On the other hand, 2/2s are unheard of and would likely be played even if they had strong negative effects.
I think Medical Breakthrough is a strong card, but a balanced one. In decks with a focus on fast advance, it seems extremely likely to see play. However, in a conventional Jinteki deck, I’m not sure it will make the cut, especially given that it’s rather weak unless you run all three.
Legwork seems very very strong to me. I think this card is superior to Maker’s Eye.
Medical Breakthrough and Mushin no Shin are the most interesting corp cards. Breakthrough giving you a benefit for your opponent stealing your own agendas is a good ability.
i think its interesting and potentially quite good. perhaps you just install advance advance the first sort of like PE does with fetal. if you score it or the runner does suddenly everything in your deck is scorable from hand with FA tricks/clone retirement and thats pretty huge when you are playing to 6 points via harmony medtech.
i think its a cool way of giving jinteki some FA options without reskinning something from HB or NBN.
harmony medtech is nuts. i think there is going to be a flatline version and a score quick version and trying to figure out which version you are playing against is going to be interesting.
The thing I’m most interested in is the previously-spoiled Code Gate that throws the runner headlong into a Rototurret, Ichi, or whatever other nasty piece of ICE you can think of. The fact that it can allow Rototuret to trash the runner’s sentry-breaker is especially exciting.
The next thing that interests me most is a Biotech deck with 6 3-point agendas as the only agendas in the deck. Needing to score only 2 agendas to win puts a lot of pressure on the Runner (see Hollis’s thoughts on match point in Jinteki for more on this), and that probably makes things like ASec to be incredibly strong.
legwork is awesome. the hardest part about legwork is deciding what gets cut from your criminal deck to make it fit.
one of the problems ive had with andy is sometimes because i dont run sneakdoor HQ runs become so inefficient i end up running RnD over and over with interface when the corp is sitting on a fistful of agendas in hand. legwork solves this problem
Inazuma, and I agree, it’s bonkers. I’m hoping it will shift the meta away from Yog, since the ability to break a 5 str code gate early will be pivotal. To me, a meta with less Yogs is healthier (IMO).
That’s actually incredibly interesting. Mushin No Shin also really helps here, and makes for some very deadly traps. After you score the first 3 pointer, they basically HAVE to run anything you plonk down. Hmmm…
But hasn’t that always been the problem for Jinteki?
Scoring a 3-pointer isn’t trivial. Remember that with Mushin No Shin you IAAA in a new server and have one click remaining to protect it. A single ICE seems like pretty weak defence to me - a single Inside Job and the runner is now half way to victory!
The value in Mushin No Shin is in creating a situation in which the runner has to run, which means your traps have more value. I can’t see Mushin No Shin seriously working for agenda scoring without conceding points a fair proportion of the time, but it will enable flatline kills more effectively. Maybe if you can combine it with Shipment from Mirrormorph (to install multiple ICE) and/or Caprice Nisei, Strongbox, Ruhr Valley or Ash - basically something that will either keep the runner out, deny them resources or restrict access.
I think it probably works better in a Replicating Perfection deck, running False Leads and Ruhr/Stronbox for click denial. Of course, the criminals already have the answer to that with Early Bird and Doppelganger (free runs).
Oh, I’m just spitballing here. Sure, scoring a 3 pointer is tricky, but if you do pull it off, you put the runner in a desperate situation the next time you advance. I also don’t think ice is necessary for the agenda you leave out there, the threat of a 3 point Overwriter or Junebug is enough. It’s a roll of the dice for the runner; winning with 3 brain damage is tough against Jinteki, so if that triple advanced card is out there, the whole game could come down to that one card. Guess right, you win, guess wrong, you lose. The threat has always been there for Jinteki, but there’s a big difference between 2 and 3 counters, and you’re saving money to boot! I can see the potential, not sure how viable it will be, but it sounds fun…
Or Silhouette runs HQ and exposes it. Traps will have a zero percent success rate and unguarded agendas will have a 100% loss rate.
Hey all, the banner ad for Honor and Profit has 2 more cards (A Jinteki Ice and a Jinteki agenda) Can anyone make out what they are?
As I wrote on Reddit the other day, I think the name of the ICE is Susanoo-no-Mikoto (with or without the -), which is the japanese god of sea and storms. It seems to be an unique ICE and it would fit with the only other unique.
Someone else pointed out that the only subroutine seems to be redirecting the runner on the Archives server, which would make it quite interesting due to Shock!. Lastly, it costs 9 credits for a STR 7, types seem to be Barrier, Deflector.
The Agenda seems to be a 3/1 and have a power token… might be related to net damage, given it’s Jinteki’s “expertise”.
The Agenda type seems to be “Security”.
Scoring a 3 pointer is quite easier than some make it out to be. Non-trivial for sure, but if you can draw a 3-pointer between early and mid-game you can usually score it.
I think the 6 3-pointer deck can indeed make for some very interesting trap shenanigans. That being said, the runner only needs two agendas to win as well. Furthermore, exposes are in the game. It’ll be hard to make something like this work consistently.