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IDs with the Wrong Influence


#1

Everyone in the entire world* agrees that NEH has the wrong influence printed on it. Drawing cards in a card game turns out to be a benefit, not a disadvantage, who knew?

Conversely GRNDL seems hard-done-by. Only 10 influence for +5 credits, and the Runner gets a free cred every run? I’d have lived with 12 inf, but 10…

Custom Biotics has a massive 22 influence, but no one seems to care. Turns out free credits from ETF have more traction.

And what about Runners?

Is Stirling really deserving of his miserly 10 influence? Would he get let out of the box more if he got a few more toys?

Why can’t the professor have a couple more influence? Surely he deserves a bursary?

Which IDs should have more or less influence? Why?

*may not supported by actual facts


#2

Less:
NEH
Kate
ETF

More:
Professor
GRNDL


#3

To some extent rebirth will mitigate influence-starved IDs for the runner side such as Iain (not sure why anyone would want to be reborn into professor though, whilst waiting for a rebirth would hinder Kits early game aggression window).

Less: NEH, ETF, Kate, Titan (future proofing Weylands anticipated day in the sun). More: NEXT, GRNDL, BWBI (needs more than just influence), Prof, Kit


#4

Exile should get errata’ed to 18 at least, since 3 clone chips are basically mandatory. I’d guess he should have been 17, so really 20 feels right. Or print more goddamn stuff for him.

Kit should be 12. Easy.

Iain should also be 12.

Next could probably have been 15 and been fine.

Medtech could be 15, no one would care.

Nisei should be 17. Seriously, the ID ability is actually kinda good, but it doesn’t equate to economy.

TWIY should be 15.

Argus shoulda been the 17, Titan the 15. Titan doesn’t need 17.


#5

I’m of the opinion that NEH being the “horizontal” ID could have 17 influence (so it can bring in all those crazy assets from other factions), but it should have had an Apex/GRNDL drawback like ice costing 1c more to install or rez.

Changing influence won’t fix the problem with Kate or EtF (if it does then why isn’t anyone playing Custom Biotics).

Giving the Prof more influence (like 5 or even 10) but make him unable to include non-neutral non-programs to fit the theme of being an ivory tower type.

Custom Biotics really needs something a little more interesting than raw influence - NBN and Weyland cards cost less influence or something.

GRNDL and Iain both should get 2 more influence.


#6

I wish NEXT design had been 40/15 instead of 45/12


#7

Personally I see lots of opportunity for FFG to do some ID fixing. Many existing ID deserve to be updated, and I don’t think players would be anything but glad. It could be as simple as FFG releasing an ID Update pack (themed and justified however they would prefer) every once in awhile. Players would also have the option of playing the original versions with errata.

Errata is probably the more elegant solution, but some people seem to already have an issue with WNP’s new unique status.

I think with SYNC available at 40/15, NEH is now fair at 45/17. The issue isn’t that NEH is too good in comparison to other NBN; the issue is that NBN is the most powerful faction overall.


#8

I don’t think NEH’s ability is as powerful as some of the other NBN identities so I consider its extra two points of influence to work well. Seems weird, because it’s undeniably strong, but I would rather take HAARP if they had the same influence cost.

GRNDL could have been buffed to 12 influence. If it had 15, it would take over the faction. It may not seem like it, but you can actually play “accelerated glacier” with it so it’s far more powerful and versatile than it appears, despite the BP.

What Stirling needs is a Corroder replacement. I can’t believe that after 4 years every single Criminal is still forced to run that card because there are no alternatives.

The Professor would turn into Stimhack.dec if he had more influence, which is why he’s limited to 1.

Most “reduced to compensate for draw/decksize” identities (TWIY, NEXT Design) should have gotten 15 influence though Medtech is ok like it is.


#9

NEH having 17 influence is clearly problematic. As a baseline, Haarpsichord is arguably better if they’re both 15 influence, but NEH allows the corp to build around some pretty specific tactics. For example, fast advance asset spam decks can be really formidable, and asset-driven kill decks allow the corp to find pieces for the death blow quicker while baiting the runner into more runs on remotes. I also have to point out as a misguided lover of Weyland, it kind of makes me sad that NEH has 17 influence to work with and Gagarin has only 15 when Weyland is clearly at a significant disadvantage as a faction.

Granted, I think Titan or Argus, as IDs that typically only contribute 3-5 times per game, deserve to be at 17 a lot more than Gagarin, but just a little food for thought for comparison purposes.

Ideally, I would have liked to see the professor get 3 influence just because there are so many 3 influence cards you could never use with him, even as a one-of. For example, my professor deck relies heavily on medium and nerve agent, and I’d get a huge kick out of using 1x demolition run even if I don’t see it every game. I feel like I’m basically stuck with stimhack as the default use of the 1 influence. On the other hand, if I had 3 influence to work with, the right call might be to just go with 3 stimhacks to speed the deck up and make it more consistent, so there’s that.

I agree with people who think GRNDL is too low. Starting with one bad pub is a pretty hefty drawback in its own right.

Kit’s ability is pretty powerful, but I had a hard time building a deck with the limited influence – even worse post MWL. At the same time, I think Kate is fine post MWL, while EtF could probably go down to 12 as arguably the best corp ID in the game other than NEH - and that might get people to give others like custom biotics a chance. I don’t see why any of the other Bioroid IDs are sub-15.

I also find Ian’s 10 influence problematic because while his ability can be really good, it doesn’t even work unless you’re losing.

Weyland’s BWBI should have like 20 influence because it’s terrible.


#10

On the corp side:

TWIY should be at least 15, but I understand why they printed it at 12 with the mets at the time, but it is effectively blanked by SYNC.

NEXT Design would be perfectly reasonable if it had 15, still nobody would play it. A reasonable change would be that you could draw a starting hand of 8, then install 3 ice, without drawing up. Even with that buff and the 15 inf, I doubt it would see much competitive play.

Nisei Division should have 18, so you actually have the inf to import good ice if you want to go glacier, which is hard to do atm. You could also import the third Scorched (or Jackson if you are punitive-ing) and some other fun tools)

Custom Biotics should say you can’t put Weyland cards in, but for theme reasons that’s not reasonable.
ETF should have 1 less inf, it’s just too good.

Weylands ID’s are fine.

For the runner:

@x3r0h0ur is completely correct, Exile should be at a high value, probably 20.

Another shaper that needs a buff is Nasir, he wants 16 (a little bias on this one)

Kit is fine, people just are not aggressive enough in their card choices. Kate should have 1 less, just a little hit like ETF.

Ian definatly needs the full 15, although it’s a powerful ability, a good Corp player will play around him. It’s too easy to know what he is doing with limited inf.

Geist needs 17, I always feel like I’m a couple influance from making a good deck, maybe a 50/19?

Anarchs are fine atm, maybe Quetzal should have a couple more, but Noise should be a 45/12 for sure. I know all the Noise diehards are going to come at me for this, but he just makes so many slow stratagies fall on thier face.

But for the most part, FFG has done a good job at balancing ID’s.


#11

Kate/ETF/NEH don’t need less influence. The MWL has handled that. Just some other ID’s needed more. Iain/Kit/NEXT etc. Nerfing the better ID’s is not going to be productive, or fun.


#12

Alternatively, would a alternate version of the Most Wanted List work? Like, say, a rotating list of ID’s on a NA City Hall Exemplary Citizen Award that can ignore the influence-reducing effects of the MWL.


#13

HB really likes red cards, flavor aside. Custom Biotics can’t play their favorite red card, nor can the play other synergistic red cards that work very well with HBs less explored brain damagey pool. Outside of laboriously importing Midseasons combos, there isn’t a three-way faction combo wombo out there that warrants 22 influence. CI was able to do it with 15 inf and a big hand, and right now that’s all you need.


#14

Easy changes:

  • NEH to 15. enough digital ink has been spillt on this already, so I’ll leave it at that.
  • TWIY to 15. SYNC currently blanks this ID; the early design concept of losing influence for better decksize has been (rightfully, imo) abandoned and this ID can be brought back to the table quite easily.
  • GRNDL to 15. There was a time when I somewhat agreed with this being a high powered ID in need of an influence hit, and then they printed valencia. a tournament environment where one of the most popular runner IDs is likely to pack 3x of the perfect silver bullet to your entire gameplan is a hostile one, and GRNDL probably won’t see much play even with an influence bump for this reason.
  • Medtech to 15. This one also uset to be borderline, but with the advent of the MWL and GFI, the minimum influence bar for a non-NBN deck to function has just gotten too high.
  • Kit to at least 12. There’s no denying this is one of the more powerful runner abilities in the game, but 10 just isn’t enough. As on of the only low influence runner IDs that isn’t really “saved” by rebirth, she deserves a bump.
  • NEXT design to 15. Even the best case scenario of this ID is barely worth one or two influence loss, if it were guaranteed to happen. As is you run the risk of your whole deck being a complete or partial misfire, and don’t deserve to lose influence for that.

Now, for funsies:

  • Kate and ETF to 0. These IDs are garbage and do nothing but make netrunner more dull. make them unplayable.
  • Exile and Nasir to 20, or erratad to be exempt from MWL. Already weaker IDs, these two were especially brutalized by the MWL as 3x clone chip and at least 1x parasite and/or 1xlady are all but mandatory.
  • all weyland ID’s +3 influence (or more), until such time as the faction is deemed playable again.
  • custom biotics to 50, because why not. they can’t have caprice or astroscript or breaking news, so what good is their influence anyways?
  • Iain to 15. I didn’t put him on the “real” list b/c rebirth means he will see plenty of play. That said, I’m a sucker for the ole’ guy, and it’d be nice if he got to actually headline a deck every once in a while, which will never happen once rebirth hits.

#15

I wonder how the game would change if Kate and ETF were simply not tournament valid ID’s. Not because I don’t like them, but I kinda agree with the idea that they’re kinda dull but indisputably powerful ID’s. Almost every other ID in those factions suffer from "Yeah, this looks like a solid deck, but wouldn’t it be better in Kate/ETF?


#16

I’ve noticed we don’t have a single ID with reduced influence that is tier 1. There hasn’t been any success taking an ability that’s powerful, reducing the influence that players are allowed to channel against it, and release something that would be tier 1 without breaking the game.
I’d like to be optimistic and say the reason we haven’t had that is that the playerbase is full of creative, skillful deckbuilders, and giving them more influence gives them more power to go beyond what’s in the playtesting group. If Kit and Kate seem balanced with what the playtesters can come up with, the larger playerbase will use blank canvas (pardon the pun) of 15 influence and find creative things the playtesters don’t have time to find, like if you put Legwork in the same deck as Stimhack, that’s an awful lot of central pressure and an awful lot of remote pressure in the same deck. With less influence, the ID with the more powerful ability has less freedom to do things that the developer didn’t expect.

I’m not a huge fan of patching influence values until all IDs are equally represented, because there’s lots of IDs I never want to see represented because they are more narrow and introduce less deckbuilding variety and less play choices. I want Iain’s power level to stay at “thought exercise”, because I think a match between a Leela and an NEH player is going to be more skill intensive than a match between an Iain and an NEH player. Rielle is a pet favorite of mine and I use her playmat and bring her to every casual event ever, but I also think she should stay at occasional meta call power level because Kate brings a more branched decision tree for the player, the deckbuilder, and the corp’s uncertain expectations.
If you restrict the idea of patching IDs to stuff that has some versatility to it, though, I’m alright with it. If you nerfed all the powerful, versatile ID’s until the game was dominated by CT combo, Always Be Ken Tenma, and install install install argus, i probably would enjoy the game a lot less.


#17

I think if they really want to open up more cards to be playable (that was one of the reasons Damon gave for the MWL), then knocking down Kate and ETF in influence would do a lot of work. Though I agree with @hhooo that reducing influence makes things less fun. That said, the card pool is ever growing (at least for a year anyway).

I also like the idea of making Nasir and Exile exempt from the MWL, and maybe Stronger Together just for fun. I think BWBI is beyond hope.

All the mini-faction runners need more influence, especially Apex.


#18

Except the MWL also hit the influence of every other Shaper/HB/NBN ID, Professor aside. Espeically HB. ETF still essentially gains one credit per turn, and it’s still going to be the best HB ID.


#19

I’m a little twitchy about giving Kit enough influence to have 3x siphons.

And with MWL is Professor actually better with just 5 influence?


#20

I’d like to see an NAPD AAP (Affirmative Action Program) to go along with the MWL for cards who through no fault of their own were born into a meta that rejects them. So really niche stuff like Record Reconstructor and Copy Cat give you a little more wiggle room influence wise. You know, for cards that do a thing, and do it quite efficiently, but the thing in question isn’t really something you want to be doing in the first place.