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Industrial Genomics - no win condition required


#1

I’m currently considering bringing a variant of “The Slow Bleed”, an IG deck played by Cory Hockman on PeachHack Netrunner. It’s a fun mix of untrashable assets and net damage flying around to slow down the runner and sometimes catching him in a flatline if he overstretches, but the resurgence of Whizzard worries me.

I couldn’t see an IG thread here, so I thought I’d make one! Current IG thinking seems to revolve around 54 cards, 9 agendas and slooooowly bleeding the runner dry. (@Zeromus seems to have gotten a Ronin version to work, but that’s apparently Top Secret Sauce and I don’t like Ronin anyway, so hey!)

“No win condition” is stretching it a bit, but it seems to rely on scoring ice protected by untrashable Ashes and Caprices, which isn’t the quickest thing to set up. The big hole in this is Imp (who cares if the Ash costs 10 credits to trash) and maybe Whizzard, who is running all over the place.

But with trash cost 7 to 9 on most assets, is Whizzard enough to make a dent in this? Or is enough to purge Imp on sight, and let him bankrupt himself trying to make use of his ID ability?


#2

For reference:

IG - The Slow Bleed
Industrial Genomics Growing Solutions
15 influence spent (max 15) •••••••••••••••
22 agenda points (between 22 and 23)
54 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Breaker Bay
Agenda Agenda (9)

2x Fetal AI
1x Hades Fragment
3x NAPD Contract
3x The Future Perfect
Asset Asset (21)

2x Blacklist ••
3x Hostile Infrastructure
3x Jackson Howard •••
3x Melange Mining Corp.
3x PAD Campaign
3x Shock!
2x Snare!
2x Sundew
Upgrade Upgrade (6)

2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY ••••
2x Caprice Nisei
2x Hokusai Grid
Operation Operation (6)

2x Enhanced Login Protocol ••••
3x Hedge Fund
1x Reclamation Order ••
Barrier Barrier (2)

2x Ashigaru
Code Gate Code Gate (2)

2x Crick
Sentry Sentry (8)

2x Cortex Lock
3x Komainu
3x Tsurugi


#3

Tagging @Cory_Hockman since you mentioned him yourself. Also @pacer since I know he likes to dabble in IG from time to time.

One of the telling quotes from Pacer was that IG is “very hard to lose with, but very hard to win with as well.” I also think that in the grand scheme of things playing quickly enough (and having your opponent play quickly enough, which certainly isn’t easy with all of the odd choices IG presents you with) is the key. I’ve seen soooo many IG games go to time or push the first game past the 45 minute mark that it feels like you’re just leaving too much prestige on the table just by bringing IG to not make it worth it. I’d like to see though, as apparently Chris totally killed it in Rochester (maybe both literally and figuratively?) while playing IG, so maybe my fears are unfounded.


#4

I’ve been dabbling with IG and as was mentioned speed seems to be the biggest block from the ID being really strong. The biggest issues I have right now are imp being popular, inadequate ice draws for archives in the early game, and card draw in general.

To that point I’ve tested a larger ice spread, dbs, and burst econ through mini-giraffe. Although I’m not certain on the celebrity gift, as 2 clicks tends to hurt. I’m not sold on hokusai or sundew. They seem like liabilities. It needs to go faster!


#5

I see a lot of PADs - wouldn’t Mental Health be faster? I would have thought that -1 trash cost is more than compensated by IG and Hostiles.

Tuism used to run SanSan City Grid as the win condition (Stark Industries). I’m thinking Clot may have ruined that.


#6

No matter which version of IG you play you probably want virus suite because Imp is this deck’s bane. If you run San San you might want two Suites. I think you can run a relatively low Ice count, econ (as in most decks) ids number one priority. I don’t think Sundew is worth it mainly because of Security Testing but Melange is really good as well as Pad. Mental is ok but does hamper the Snare kills option and Snare is so much better when the runner has to spend money to trash it. I have a couple of lists I’m working on but I’m really waiting on Genetics Pavilion before I start seriously considering playing it again.


#7

What’s the consensus on 54 cards? Could the deck achieve equal or better results with 49?


#8

No, you need those extra cards and turns to be able to score out eventually. This style IG deck is really strong, but too slow for tournaments, I’ve had a couple versions in the past month or two, but I can’t figure out a way to speed it up.

Also, Server Diagnostics is significantly better than Sundew in my experience.


#9

How do you get cards into archives, just overdraw? Seems like there is a Power Shutdown IG deck somewhere out there.


#10

yeah you overdraw. It gets very hard to lose if you can get to a point where you can hit Melange, then discard from the mandatory draw for several turns. You often overdraw naturally though to avoid using jackson too early. And ice Archives before any other server usually, Upgrades with high trash costs are better than Ice on HQ/R&D early on. Hokusai, Herrings, and Ash/Caprice are all ridiculous with 3 facedowns in archives.


#11

Power shutdown seems like it would fit pretty well. I’ve been toying with the idea of using blue level and possibly more operation econ to speed things up. Blue level seems like it provides a lot for IG.


#12

Against Imp, you just gotta purge. Only has one counter left? Purge anyways. That counter is going to be worth anywhere from one credit to priceless for the runner. And you’re also playing the one ID that doesn’t mind discarding the excess card.


#13

Played a bunch of games yesterday, both SanSan version and the version above. Didn’t go well. Going to give it a few more tries, but if I can’t even win random octgn games it might be best to go back to Tennin NA.

Going to try one with Herrings, and at least one if not two Cyberdexes. Imp has to die. Is Crisium a good include? Might not be Worth the influence when I can run Ash/Herrings.

And going to test Server Diagnostics, this might finally be a good deck for it!


#14

For what it’s worth, I think 2 DBS, 2 Ash, 2 Herrings, 3 Jackson, 1 tollbooth has been my most common inf. spread. 3x Interns are the only operations in the deck. 10-11 ice, 3x server Diagnostics.


#15

I’m thinking Blacklist can be good, but maybe that’s only against Levy. The deck doesn’t really care if they runner has breakers. But then there’s always Imp recursion…


#16

So I saw @Cory_Hockman playing this on Peachhack a few weeks ago and had to try it out. I’ve been playing it pretty religiously in my testing since then and have found the deck to be very, very solid, though what @pacer says about it being hard to win with is true.

I also took it to a monthly tournament on Saturday 13 June and will be taking it to regionals on Saturday 20 June. It went 3/2 (same as my runner, Reina Headlock) but I didn’t get to see how it performed in the top 8, because I had to leave to go to work even though I’d earned my spot. I flooded game one against PPVP Kate but still managed to score 5 points, then handled a Leela efficiently (though the player wasn’t particularly good with either deck, handing me the win by not remembering he had Jackson on board during an archives run). Game three was against CT Siphon which was an intense match that was very well played by both of us, until he legworked into two Snare’s. I literally shouted when it happened because it was such an intense game and I apologised immediately afterward. Game four was against Noise which came down to the wire, me literally drawing my last card after shuffling in three hedge funds with Jackon, and having just enough to score the winning NAPD. Game five was against RegAss Maxx who ripped a TFP and Fetal AI on their first turn and while I put up a valiant effort, they got me to 0 credits and hit the 20% chance for the TFP that was in my hand.

The deck has a very solid Noise matchup, as you have plenty of turns where you can just purge, not to mention he feeds your ID ability. That being said, because you’re slow he can mill you out, even with 54 cards. The deck has an alright PPVP Kate matchup, it’s nothing spectacular and you have to play tight. You run two blacklist and they’re difficult for her to trash, plus you’re a very taxing deck. If they get on top of you early it becomes rough, because they have the econ to trash your assets. I can’t really speak to the Maxx matchup as the tournament game is the only one I’ve played against her. I’ve played against a couple of Whizzard decks, and it ends up being about normal cost/slightly above for them to trash, which still isn’t fun for them. You can defend high value assets with nasty ICE too.

One thing I’ve learned is that the deck has to be quite aggressive once it has the scoring server online. “Online” can be more difficult to judge, but sometimes it’s simply an Ash and a Caprice when you have a superb econ advantage, and regularly is one or both of them plus a singleton ICE. But you really have to take advantage of those scoring windows.

The changes I’ve made to Pacer’s deck are minimal, replacing the two ELP with two Cerebral Static. I’ve found this to be quite strong in my meta, with lots of Noise, Kate and a few Whizzard. It would do great work against Maxx as well, but I didn’t see it against her or Leela. It REALLY makes the Noise matchup easy. I haven’t replaced this influence yet, but with the prevalence of ParaSucker, I’m considering two Tollbooth and the addition of a few Lotus Field. Not sure what I’d take out. I’m also considering Power Shutdown, as the deck can make effective use of the card’s downside, and Power Shutdown for 0 is the real deal against SMC, NRE and Progenitor.

Really really like this deck, but you’ll want to get reps in with it so you know your lines of play. Never went to time on the weekend but came close, and this is definitely a slower deck. That being said I don’t think it has the raw power of RP or NEH, and it’s much easier for the Runner to play around the kill condition than it is against Blue Sun.


#17

I have one that I’ve modified more closely to Cory’s list after lots of testing on my own, the deck has a very solid winrate online, but is probably still a touch too slow for IRL play. My experience is you can rush the first 2 points very fast, like HB with caprice style with just caprice/ash and 1-2 ice. Then you ride that to midgame where you score another agenda, then mid-late to late game you force your econ advantage into a score with interns recurring ash/caprice behind 2,3, or even 4 ice in the remote, or just FA off the medical breakthrough (which I run).

IG is really tough to play because you have to identify the narrow scoring windows you get, and knowing when to move on a score can be super tough. I do feel the power level is there, but the thing runs pretty slow, you need a fast runner to go with it.


#18

Considering the ID ability and low ice count, whats a solid first turn play? Is a mulligan for ice or jackson the way to go?


#19

I look for 2 small ice and hedge, or a mhc. Cortex on HQ and yagura on RnD except vs criminal is pretty ideal. Criminal isn’t great due to my low etr ice, and having to dig out of siphon can be a bit of a heartache, but…MHC afterall. Getting one online can get you dollars, or force the runner to play for that over central pressure, allowing you to dig and drop. Find komainu or crick for archives, or early midgame, tsurugi. Work towards tollbooth, ashigaru and maybe 1 more ice on the remote, with 1 of your remote stoppers.

One common thing I find people doing is trying to get a million things in archives, all the time. Unless you’re forcing an agenda or melange, 1-2 things is fine. Up it to 3-5 maybe if you’re pushing or their aggressive on remotes. Don’t over do it, it doesn’t take much to nudge the runner off your shit.


#20

This is what I’ve been playing for few weeks :

Industry hurts ! v3

Industrial Genomics: Growing Solutions (The Source)

Agenda (9)
2x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (21)
2x Hostile Infrastructure (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) [color=#FF8C00]•••[/color]
2x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
1x Shattered Remains (First Contact)
2x Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit)
3x Shock! (True Colors)
3x Snare! (Core Set)
3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)

Upgrade (8)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)
2x Crisium Grid (First Contact) [color=#006400]••[/color]
2x Hokusai Grid (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Red Herrings (Core Set) [color=#FF8C00]••••[/color]

Operation (7)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)
2x Predictive Algorithm (The Valley) [color=#FF8C00]••[/color]
1x Reuse (Up and Over) [color=#006400]•[/color]

Barrier (2)
1x Ashigaru (Up and Over)
1x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) [color=#8A2BE2]•[/color]

Code Gate (4)
1x Crick (Breaker Bay)
2x Lotus Field i[/i]
1x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

Sentry (3)
1x Architect (Up and Over) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
1x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
1x Swordsman (Second Thoughts)
15 influence spent (max 15)
22 agenda points (between 22 and 23)
54 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Breaker Bay

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Reguarding the current I’ve tried many things (but not ELP) and Predictive is what I prefer. It helps defending your agenda without ice and goes very well with the concept of pressing the runner economy.

I also played against this deck with IT department in it and was quite impressed by its usefullness. It’s costly to trash and can help you create a scoring window with only 1 ice in front of it.