Initial Card Ratings for 33 spoiled C&C cards

I’m personally crazy about Self-Modifying Code, especially its Stimhack synergy, which is why I’d give it a 5 (over your 4).

I LOVE self modifying code.
I am reserving 5/5 for the TRULY game-dominating cards. The Siphon, the SanSan, etc, and am trying to really tighten up the top end of the ratings and not give this out much. 5/5 cards in mysystem should be powerhouse cards FOREVER, in an eternal netrunner format, even years from now.

If a card came out that was like Sure Gamble, but gave you +5, and didnt require money, I still wouldnt give that card 5/5. (Would be like 4.5).

So self modifying code is AWESOME. And 4/5 in my system denotes strong cards.

since so many of the resources are of the “decent-to-great value if you can get them early” variety (compromised employee, Pro Contacts, Underworld Contacts, Mr Li, etc).

I think those kinds of cards are pretty poor, with the exception of Wyldside and Personal Workshop. The high cost investment cards that pay off a buck a turn or whatever actually kindof suck, and theyre just going to keep getting worse as the game gets faster. The fact that they suck when you draw them later just further degrades their benefit.

Paying to tutor for them wouldnt really help. Drawing the tutor, playing it, and paying for it just slows you down so much, that when you compound that with the resource also slowing you down, its just terrible.

Mr Li is actually weaker than Pro Contacts, I think, however it is in the faction without any Draw cards, so that makes it less terrible. Whereas Pro Contacts is shaper, and they have two STRONG cards in Diesel and Quality Time, and thus dont really need it as much.

For the Criminal, rather than splash Pro Contacts I’d rather splash Quality Times for less influence.

Oh man, people are shitting a brick about The Source. Do they not realize it’s trashed once the corp scores, and the runner has to pay an additional 3 to score? Its like they’ve never scored a 3-pointer before.

Just wait for your window to score, or give up a 1-pointer and bankrupt the runner. Jeez, some peeps on bgg need to smoke a jay once in a while, just chill! Everything will be OK. If people want to spend influence and credits to score one agenda and/or walk into a secretary I’m OK with that. That’s kind of the point of influence, splashing Sneakdoor, RDI, Siphon, etc to score point.

SOT Siphon I’m kind of thinking will be an issue, particularly out of Criminal. I’m actually not too worried about it oof unless you keep stoking the masses, Alex :smile: I can Melange past a few Siphons but getting hit every few turns with one would be debilitating.

Pseudoedit: not concerned about oof siphons until Roja. Not sure what you’re gonna do then except draw agendas and cry.

2 Likes

I’m not going to play any deck anymore without Siphons and Plascrete. :slight_smile:

There is the Criminal deck of course.
Then there is Shaper with 2 Siphon and 3 Same Old Thing.
Whizzard with 2-3 Siphon and 3 Same Old Thing.
Noise with 2-3 Siphon and 3 Same Old Thing. (Sahasrara replaces workshop at lower influence cost to help play out the viruses?)

The Anarchs ALSO get Deja Vu. And they get to abuse your poorness with Joshua B and DLR.

Yeah I kind of think shapers are better off splashing oof for breakers, but anarch could do some serious damage with siphon. Like I said, man, Roja’s gonna change the face of Anarch :slight_smile:

Oh ya, and get working on that Sahasrara Noise deck, Anthony.

Sahasrara Noise:

2 Account Siphon
3 Same Old Thing
3 Deja Vu

3 Sahasrara

lots of viruses.
anarch breakers and crypsis
money
etc.

I have a good idea for a shaper deck it will be:

2 Account Siphon
3 Same Old Thing
3 Quality Time

Then some breakers and money.

1 Like

On saturday I tested a Kit deck with 2 Siphons and 3 Same Old Thing. Was so nice to pull off three Siphons in a game as a Shaper and not even need Opus in my deck. Kit with Gordian can also guarantee a Siphon through one ice, which is nice.

Of course, I ended up getting unexpectedly triple scorched because I only put out 1 plascrete. Lol!

4 Likes

Hi guys,

Some questions/comments/responses on the new cards:

First up The Prof. and Custom Biotics: For me these are a strange inclusion in a faction-specific deluxe set, since their game text relies so heavily on out of faction cards - why didn’t they save these IDs for the end of the next cycle? Anyway, I agree that at the moment this pair seem weak, but as the card pool grows having access to more out of factions tricks and toys will become more powerful. Cherry-picking good cards is not to be under-estimated.

Something else I’ve noticed (not sure if anyone picked up on this) but every runner ID is either “Natural”, “G-Mod” and/or “Cyborg”. It also seems to be the case that the apparently weaker IDs are naturals. I wonder whether in the future we’ll see the Corp exploiting IDs who aren’t entirely human - such that it becomes a bit of a risk to play a non-Natural ID?

Dagger: Where was this card spoiled? Anyway, could go either way depending on what “stealth credits” turn out to be and how reliable they are. I imagine there will be a suite of stealth breakers and probably a console or some other hardware to fuel them. This will probably be a clutch of cards you either take or leave en masse.

Chakana: I agree currently is pretty useless, however if virus counter manipulation ever becomes a thing this could suddenly become huge. I noticed in the new cycle there’s an event card that allows the corp to purge viruses for a single click. I think this is important because the runner can engineer situations where a virus purge is useless to the corp - i.e. the runner can restore all (or even more) of the purged counters on his next turn so the corp can never recover from the virus-lock. This card could play into exactly one of those situations.

Same Old Thing: I quite agree that with the right pool of events this can be massive, but in general spending 3 (or more!) clicks for an event is not good economy. I wonder though whether perhaps this card (and others in the C&C set) might be the first pieces of a new breed of deck that uses excessive draw and self-milling to use the discard pile as an extended hand? This has just happened in the Game of Thrones LCG and is a pretty successful build.

Paricia: I think this card is quite decent actually, but my main problem is that I don’t see that it’s good enough to displace essential cards in most “normal” builds. I think its best use is in massive R&D digging decks with Medium and RDI.

Self-Modifying Code, Sahasrara and Dirty Laundry: Awesome, nothing more to say.

Professional Contacts: I’m struggling to find any love for this at the moment. I will think on it and see if I can find good situations for it but it seems to me that it’s designed for the long game which doesn’t fit the current mold for Netrunner. I think I still prefer to just draw in quantity with events and Wyldside to get to burst economy faster, rather than slowly accrue money and cards. Throw in that he’s damned expensive and his vulnerability and he really doesn’t look like a great investment.

The Source: Hugely over-rated in my opinion. If it was simply neutral without an influence cost it might be playable, but as it is I don’t think decks will be able to find the space for 2-3 copies of this (it’s not a one-of card, especially given it’s ephemeral nature). I think its biggest issue is that it’s trashed when the corp scores - so you can’t even really use it in a deck where you’re looking to stall to buy time for a big late game.

However, perhaps the presence of this and Paricia (along with “protect at all costs” cards like Director Haas) might mean a shift away from rush strategies towards running 5/3 agendas in bigger remotes.

Director Haas: I definitely agree that she’s not great. Although, a question about how multiple copies of her work…

She is unique and the rules say “Some cards have a unique symbol (◆) in front of their title. There can be only one unique card of the same title active at a time. If a card with a unique
title becomes active, any other card that shares its title is immediately trashed. This trashing cannot be prevented.” (p.11)
And “Agendas cannot be rezzed and are only active while in a score area.” (p.8)

Haas’ text treats her “as an agenda”, therefore she is active, and therefore the Corp could trash her by rezzing a second one (recovering the 2 agenda points) so maybe she’s not so bad?

Thomas Haas: The more I think about this one, the more I think he might actually be the card of the set. Let me explain…

Firstly, note that you can never lose the money on him - there is a step before accessing cards where the corp can rez and use paid abilities so if he’s about to be accessed you can always drain the cash and trash him before the runner gets to him. Secondly, since you’ll never rez him until you need him it means you can (in theory) have multiple copies of him in play (and advanced) - it’s an unlikely option but considering he is a kind of secret economy it might be worth splitting the money across multiple copies as it will change the runner’s psychology.
The next thing is that because you can advance the balls off this guy he will look exactly the same as your big agendas. The current mindset is that a card left with three advancements is suspicious and four is definitely a trap. So now the runner has a choice - faced with a four+ advancement card, do they make a run? If this is Tommy then it could be a huge resource drain for nothing, but it could be a project Beale looking for a big score or a Junebug looking to close out the game in style. Tommy makes over-advancing agendas viable, which in turn makes over-advanced traps more believable too. So essentially runners will now have to make a decision: do I run on massively over-advanced servers?
The author says he’s a trap, looking to induce a run. But I think he’s more than that. Once the runner chooses not to run, they probably never will so you can score your big agendas more reliably.

I don’t think I have much more to say to be honest. Most of the other corp stuff looks pretty lacklustre - especially the ICE. Very disappointing.

1 Like

OK so I was wrong about Dagger and stealth cards…

1 Like

Unfortunately.

Finally, a decent review of Kit as a powerhouse! I’ve play-tested her extensively even without the C+C shaper card pool and she’s amazing. Early pressure is crazily strong. Personal touch and modded in faction. Mulligan anything without yog. And then, use self-modifying code to cherry pick your next breakers in a timely fashion as they begin to double ice around turn 2 or turn 3. Finally, R+D interface to round it out if they rush too many ice on any individual server. I’m so happy.

On the other hand, total custom biotics aggro?! Why not 3 scorched earth 3 archived memories, 3 drt and you’ve got influence to spare on things like 3x anonymous tip to run through and grab the combo. Sure they can plant 2x plas or 3 in the late game, but isn’t this the identity that can power through those plascretes??

sahasrara noise, lose one sahasrara, add 2 cuberfeeders to compensate and 2 aesops. Then you’re rich rich rich.

Agree with your opinion of kit, and disagree with everything else you said.It’s been pretty well understood around here since the first corp spoiler that custom biotics would be garbage, you can do a search if you aren’t convinced.

Also if you look at winning decklists, as well as pretty much any noise decklist here you will see most of them running 3 cyberfeeders, and playing with cyberfeeder is kind of what tips you off that sahasrara would be good in noise… so cutting 1 sahasrara for no reason, is quite frankly, retarded.

As I said before, custom biotics will improve as the card pool grows, but right now I don’t see any reliable combos worth playing it for.

The cyberfeeder argument isn’t necessarily true. I didn’t play it in my regional winning Noise deck. It was a tough call though. Reusable economy is definitely strong. The difference is though Sahasrara is a program and eats up your MU, so it’s an early game card you need to ditch/pawn later on. This is great for Shapers, but influence could be better spent elsewhere for anarchs and criminals. If you’re not also using search effects Sahasrara loses value, and I don’t think outsiders can afford influence for this as well as self-mod code or test run. The thing with cyberfeeder is that it still has value in the late game to power icebreakers, so it’s never a dead card.

As I said before, custom biotics will improve as the card pool grows, but right now I don’t see any reliable combos worth playing it for.

I think it will get worse as the card pool grows.
For one, the importance of a fast start and bonus economy will increase as the game speeds up, or else you will fall too far behind opponents who are getting large speedups form their identity.

Second, things like EtF will get even stronger as we get more cards that let us install on both the runner’s turn and the corps, getting more bonus money. So the identities it competes with will be getting better.

Actually it was @Alexfrog who wrote the article, so maybe he will chip in with why he thinks so.

I do tend to agree with him between Kati and all of your other economy cards. The hope is that you won’t need to click for single credits very often.

Click is close to 2 for runners. Its just what happens when you fill a runner deck with a reasonable amount of good economy cards. I did some math but it’ll need to wait because C&C came out.