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Is anyone *happy* to run Same Old Thing?

#1

I see it in decklists pretty constantly, and I can get why people like it – recursion of useful effects allowing for more one-ofs, helps mitigating losing cards (especially LARLA) to damage, and helps make event-heavy decks go off.

At the same time, I almost always feel unhappy to see it, especially in 3-of levels. It’s three clicks plus the cost of the original card, making doubles even more punishing, and I’m rarely happy to see it, honestly.

Buuut it’s in many, many top-level decklists, and seems to be an obvious-include for many people/decks.

Is there something I’m missing about it, or is it just a somewhat necessary evil that I should learn to live with?

#2

I’ve been starting to think the same, and then I noticed Dan’s andy list only has 1 copy. Account siphon has become a lot less overpowering; used to be that connecting with 3 siphons through some combination of it and SOT was basically a free win. But now NBN can win through it and blue sun can play around it more easily than ever.

Of course you still need at least 1 SOT in kate decks with LARLA, but, good insight. Much less good than it used to be.

#3

Noticing the lack in Dan’s list is why I wanted to finally ask about it. Because so many decks, especially criminal ones, seem… really bad placement for it to be more than a one-of. I can see the utility in having the slight safety valve there, and it lets you recur some one-ofs if you need 'em, but… I just don’t see how people can justify more than that outside PPVP or similar. Even then, I’d kinda rather just have more events.

#4

Even though I only ran 1x in my Worlds Noise list, I love SOT. I love it because it threatens to become any event in your heap. I especially love it in Kate, because there it threatens to be Legwork, Maker’s, Indexing, or Levy - sometimes even Stimhack. That means the Corp has to be prepared for any event that’s in your heap, which can be pretty hard if you play Kate.

#5

In crim it’s more for Legwork nowadays than Siphon.

SoT is underwhelming in non ppvp decks, but it’s an all star in Kate. One is enough for crim.

#6

I dropped to 2x during Store Champs and Regionals in my Gabe deck and felt that was the right number at the time.

Siphon’s not as good anymore but sometimes you really need a second Special Order. For example, Special Order a Faerie, run around like a madman, get stopped by a barrier, then SoT for your Corroder. That alone is enough reason to run at least one. Also good against PE if your infiltration dies to net damage.

Ultimately I think spots are getting tighter as more cards are being printed and runners need more answers to different deck types so it’s a card that you can justify cutting.

#7

I think certain decks are more happy about it than others. Prepaid Kate is totally cool with 3 because of how efficient her events become going into the late game. Criminals love it because of how many different events they can play, giving it a lot of versatility, (though I don’t think more than 2 is ever correct because of how little it does early). It’s alright in Siphoning Anarch decks as well, because they historically have relied on multiple Siphons for economy, but I think I share your sentiments about it even in those decks.

#8

I don’t like seeing it early in the game. But I do love the card, and I think as a 1 or 2-of it has a very powerful effect for a runner… besides, it can make the corp player sweat a little more, having to keep track of events in your heap as well as what you might have in your hand.

#9

SoT to me is one of those cards, that on paper, makes quite a bit of sense. You have XYZ cards that are integral to your strategy and getting to play them extra times is gravy. However, in practice, there are countless times that I sit around with it in hand or installed waiting to turn on. I think it has trended down to 1-2 copies from the ubiquitous 3x include for many decks, especially with decks like NEH forcing runners to get faster and faster.

Going back to my “on paper” theory, there are a lot of events you don’t really want 3 of in the deck, but you want to be able to play it like you did have 3, that sometimes it feels like adding a SoT in place of that 2nd or 3rd copy makes a lot of sense. And in practice, sometimes that is the case, other times, it winds up just increasing your variance and sticking you with a useless card for the first half of the game.

Out of shaper, it really helps with Test Run/Scavenge, (as well as QT/Freelance Coding Contract if you’re playing those), but both of those cards have versatility outside of the combo, making the SoT provide quite a bit playmaking ability while providing stability to your program fetch. And that’s the core of what I look for with SoT–is something it does outside of spamming the same event repeatedly. Constantly threatening every event in the heap is brutal, I can protect against AS spam, but when i threatens an indexing, inside job, test run, AND account siphon, the SoT is a window closing machine.

#10

This cuts to the quick of it; SoT is strongest when it’s just sitting out on your table, threatening to double down on whatever nasty sh** you’ve already played or had to discard. Get the corp to try to defend against everything you could do, and they end up under-defended for whatever you actually do.

Take a look at any deck with SoT in it: if it’s there to just give you extra copies of other cards you like, maybe it’s dead weight. If it’s a lingering threat of all the attacks in your deck that will hang over a corp’s head all game, then bring it along.

#11

I’m only playing 2 in my PPvP Kate deck, spags cut to a single one and I’m thinking about doing the same. The deck slot is too premium to have a good but not great card like SoT. (and we’re talking here about the deck who probably have the best use of SoT)

#12

I found it to be either another legwork, another inside job or another special order in worse cases. for worlds, I cut my two for mr. li, this way I get selection. It was definitely the right call.

#13

Short answer, yes.

I am happy to play it, it is almost always good (hence why, when tagged, it is often the first thing trashed). The ability to Legwork, Account Siphon, or Inside Job at will, is excellent. And don’t even get me started on how good it is in PPVP Kate.

#14

It depends on the list, in the more event heavy criminal list it is the best card in the deck after turn 6, same goes for prepaid kate. However, some people really shouldn’t be running it as much as they do.

#15

I cut them all for worlds (in Andy) and didn’t miss them.
With a meta that involves Power Shutdown and therefor back-up breakers deckslots are so tight.

#16

I still like SoT a lot in my Andy decks and usually play 2x. Running 1x Inflitration with SoT is a big help against PE. Also getting Special Order with SoT decreases the luck of draw when you need a certain breaker fast (NEH trying to push agenda early game behind Guard or Quandary etc.). Corp also has to change the play a little when SoT hits the table.

I am also surprised to see players cutting Siphons from their list. It is true that it is harder to hit with Siphon nowadays but first Siphon can be seen more as a “corp must rez ICE in HQ” card and shouldn’t be saved in hand so much. The second Siphon is the one which usually hits and SoT makes it a much easier. I also like SoT offering me a power plays like Siphon+Sot/Siphon+Run Remote which can be good against RP if he think of being safe scoring a agenda in the remote. I don’t mind dropping a SoT also when I am tagged even if it means Corp destroying next turn. SoT isn’t good when you want to remove Siphon tags during the same turn. Inside Jobs are not so often needed now and running 3xLegwork is almost always enough. I would say playing SoT in criminals matters more if you feel getting a lot of benefit from your Siphons.

#17

I think SOT was much more powerful when Account Siphons 4-6 were more devastating and unavoidable. However, I still think it has a solid place in several archetypes.

-Siphon spam is still viable, if not as competitive, and SOT is a vital part for that.

-Tag-me Anarch with Joshua B. and DLR uses it to cost the corp a click and 2 credits for a click on the runner’s part.

-Big breaker Shaper with Test Run/Scavenge is considerably improved by SOT’s consistency (you don’t have to wait for second copies Test Run or Scavenge)

-Ken Tenma Event Toolbox uses SOT to threaten all servers and pressure the corp

-Prepaid Kate can use SOT to replay events on turns without a non-zero cost event in hand

-Andromeda is happy to have a zero-cost card to play turn 1 that helps set up for later

#18

OP: No.

I cut to one in my Kate deck.

#19

Yeah its less useful since we cut out the multiple indexing / maker’a eye and we got 2 legwork. I’m really contemplating about cutting down SoT to a singleton just in case I discard the Levy early on.

#20

Need one for that, just in case.

On that note, @Calimsha, how many times did you LARLA at Worlds? I fired it 3 times in 9 games.