Surprised to hear people express disdain at Maya. It seems like a very strong card to me, and definitely a good reason to experiment with Sareen.
Also, were tags during runs really the reasons we weren’t playing Beckman?
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No it’s not. She can’t.
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I mean that the deck/style has room to leverage skill, even though it’s strategy is very linear.
Won’t this deck just cry against anything running Breaking News?
Most first drafts of decks lose to breaking news plays, it’s not an indictment. Plenty of established decks get blown out by breaking news now that Kate is dead.
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yeah, Breaking News is still a thing.
you’d need something like NACH anyway (which was already available)
Sareen makes Vamp + Beckman / Zona Sul easier, but it’s not foolproof on her own
i’m also confused by lack of excitement over Maya, especially with Sareen. Sareen’s and Maya’s abilities both work really well together and additionally provide a sizeable rig that leave a lot of options open.
Don’t install Beckman against yellow unless you suspect they don’t run BN.
You don’t NEED her against fast decks. She is there to help against Glacier. Think of her as 4 clicks 0 cost to get 2 credits a turn for the rest of the game (but actually even more flexible than that). That’s a good deal against slow decks.
This isn’t a “Beckman deck” it’s a deck that uses Beckman. You can do fine without her, she’s just another tool that you have.
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I’m sceptical about spending three influence on three cards that aren’t playable against the best Corp deck in the meta.
I understand the argument of “well, if Beckman’s bad then you shouldn’t install her”, but this deck doesn’t look like it can win against NBN and against deck she’s bad (a large amount of the meta) you have a bunch of dead cards in your deck and a pretty dysfunctional set of cards.
Beckman had a lot of problems before and that’s only enhanced with the very-yellow shift in the meta that the MWL has brought. Jesminder doesn’t negate this downside and Opus + Vamp has not been good for some time, and that’s not because we didn’t previously have Beckman.
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maya is also bad for the same reason its bad in other decks, if there is a raven or gutenberg on rnd, you can only fade 1 tag per run, so to use mayas marginal effect, you still have to actually take a tag.
On its effect, you’re ruining your own rnd lock, you move a card to the bottom, that might not be as useful as the next card. You move the hedge, they draw the caprice.
With astrolabe, at least you get the mu and draw a card to replace it at worst. At best maya moves sweeps when the corp is poor (are we doing denial jes??) and they draw a toll booth or something equally useful. The problem is the effect doesn’t provide you with knowledge of how it impacted the corps draw. So slot WitRD? Hell I dont know
To be fair, I’d hardly call that a best case scenario. Seems like RDI is pretty much a must include to help mitigate this, no?
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I have a feeling that this may be a false argument, for a couple of reasons. First Maya is once a turn, and not first card accessed or such not. As such you can wait to use the ability when it matters and help diminish the effective quality of draws for the deck. Secondly as it is a choice there is no need to break such a soft RnD ‘lock’ if that’s all you have. I believe Maya’s best use case is to help keep the corp off of problematic ice or operations in the case that they are not having perfect draws, while digging slightly deeper with an RnD lock.
Now that I said that is there some questions about the card. Of course. Is the effect of lowering effective card density worth running over astrolabe? Is the cost of a tag to high for the effect? Is it worth running in decks that are not trying to deny the corps access to something, be it ice or econ? These will all be answered in play-testing, but at least to me it seems like a useful effect.
Lastly if I’m doing denial and actively vamping their cash is a toll booth really that useful? You have no cash, I just tucked a sweeps week or some other econ and the ice you drew to keep me out is an 8 cost, I’ll take that most games no problem.
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the problem is that short of nbn, making multiple rnd runs isn’t that feasible. In this magic land of 2-3 runs on rnd per turn, you should just run medium.
I feel like most are bordering on mill fallacy. Also we all gad this discussion when we talked about how cool it is that kim can trash your hedge fund off rnd, but in play its a pretty marginal effect, that is about the same as moving it to the bottom of the deck to not be drawn.
True there is a little bit of happy land talk going on, but that said. NBN looks to continue to be a large part of the meta, before MWL it represented over half of all winning corp decks. Second glacier decks in general are more susceptible to the removal of key pieces, foodcoats is a lot worse if it can’t see its breaker bays, and tucking the card keeps most of their recursion from getting to it.
As far as mill fallacy, while its true the effect is marginal it still is an effect. Though with the current array of recursion, and less search being played it might be stronger than trashing would be.
I must admit, I also looked at at Maya and thought it was fairly marginal, especially if you’ll ever have to clear the tags. Personally I think it will actually be at it’s best providing MU and a relevant ability for shaper tag-me decks, probably out of CT or Kit (where as metioned in the mumbad thread bottomming ice could be pretty strong).
As for Jes, I’m not sure atm and will probably wait to see if more support is forthcoming.
If you’re running R&D 2 times in a turn, isn’t it the same effect as a Medium? The second run gets you one additional card seen, assuming nothing trashed/scored. You don’t get the bonus on more than 2 runs, but you also get the little bit of control.
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Personally I’m not going to scoff at 2MU and pseudo-multiaccess for 3 credits.
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With Shaper’s stronger breaker options and Opus econ, it’s not really that infeasible, though I do think that Medium is far and away a better choice for her than RDI if you’re trying to make Maya work.
I’d also note that the big difference between Maya and Kim is that Maya can hit anything, not just Ops. It can push problem ice away if needed, or that Jackson you can’t afford to trash, or a TFP you failed to Psi for and can’t let them draw next turn, or an Operation, sure, but the variety is the useful bit, especially with Medium where you could quickly build up an idea of where everything is at and use Maya to rearrange R&D over the course of a couple turns even with single accesses unless the Corp manages to stop you.
Though as others have said, Sareen’s viability might well come down to “does Masanori’s tag come during the run or after it” because that pretty massively changes what she can look at running for draw. I feel as though this has come up before and it was ruled as part of the run, but I can’t recall what or when or why, so… lump of salt, there.
Well, that and if Code Siphon is actually useful enough to be worthwhile with the tag drawback gone, which is… uncertain, to say the least. Maybe in conjunctioin with Test Run/Scavenge so you can use it to get bigger breakers like Femme and keep them around? Builds up Medium, too… but then, could just TR/Scavenge and get the extra runs in anyway. Hmm.
[quote=“Thike, post:35, topic:6628”]
If you’re running R&D 2 times in a turn, isn’t it the same effect as a Medium? The second run gets you one additional card seen, assuming nothing trashed/scored. You don’t get the bonus on more than 2 runs, but you also get the little bit of control.
[/quote]Except Medium builds up, starts going deeper, and you’re assuming you always want to toss the first card with Maya which really might not be the case.
Maya’s still decent on its own or with RDI, but Medium seems much better, especially as the MU boost means that, Opus, and a regular breaker suite are all available at the same time. Dunno if “regular breaker suite” is the best bet really, but it’s an option at least.
Except a targeted mill is great. It’s fantastic to be able to Imp a Hedge Fund or an Eve on top of R&D in a credit denial deck (and all these Jes decks are running Account Siphon, or it’s simply not worth playing that ID).
That’s not a fallacy. That’s a real effect.
Maya isn’t quite as good, but putting it on the bottom is almost as good (and sometimes better). It’s not particularly strong, but at 3 credits with 2MU as well, what are you expecting?
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I don’t know that Medium is needed (but it’s nice to have). Having control over R&D with even one RDI is great with Maya. You have an Imp effect that doesn’t play into an archived or Interns. Don’t trash Caprice: bottom her.
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All this talk about “The Meta”. No one has any idea what the yellow that emerges from MWL is going to look like or how much if it there is going to be. I’ve been playing against way more 1x Caprice EtF than NEH. Opus Vamp is a powerful plan A that wrecks decks that don’t have Astro (or that haven’t scored their first one yet).
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