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Jinteki AgInfusion Discussion: The Farmer in the Hell


#1

So while looking into the upcoming corp IDs, I kind of brushed aside the new Jinteki one as merely a “post-rotation RP” and today while trying to build a non-asset spam deck I thought I’d take another look.

To refresh:
AgInfusion: New Miracles for a New World

Identity: Division • Deck: 45 • Influence: 17
Once per turn, instead of rezzing an approached piece of ice, you may trash it to choose another server. The Runner is now running on that server and encountering the outermost piece of ice, if any.

So the first big idea is that, like RP, it forces a wasted click on the runner. Ok, well RP does this a bit better as there is no cost associated. So not that great, but we get two more influence to make up for this. End of story right? Well there’s more.

Unlike RP the corps gets to choose which server the runner gets deflected to. If the piece of ice is rezzed the runner is forced to encounter it, so obvious targets would be something like a rezzed Excalibur hoping the runner doesn’t have an AI breaker. Or if that server contains something like Port Anson Grid and a Snare! the runner must trash a program or face damage. Also for fun, the ID has built-in Blackmail defense (once per turn that is).
Actually that’s probably not true…

Obviously since the corp is forced to trash ice, recursion cards are key here: Crick, Architect, and our favorite asset spam card: Friends in High Places. Additionally the need to move and reposition ice onto different server, I think will be fairly helpful especially when combined with Mushin.

Some additional thoughts on cards:
Mushin No Shin - (Non-rotating card!) Let’s you install a 5/3 and score it next turn for two credits. This plus Friends in High Places I think will be the main combo for many Ag decks as it let’s you install your 5/3, and two pieces of trashed ice on the same server.

Georgia Emelyov - Hasn’t seen much usage but it seems like a consistent 2credit net damage when deflected to another server unless they want to run to complete successfully.

Replanting - Let’s you reposition ice and ignoring all costs is pretty swell. That it’s a double is a bit unfortunate as it doesn’t combo with Mushin very well.

Speaking of repositioning of ice, we might see some of these cards come out of the binder:
Tenma Line - Let’s you reposition ice.
Himitsu-Bako - This is built into the ice itself.

Anyways, I’m curious as what other’s thoughts are on this new Jinteki ID?


#2

Does Himitsu-Bako’s ability fire even in Archives? If so, you have basically a way to always fire the ability (although its not very efficient due to click compression and install costs). Its an interesting ability for sure and you brought up some good points. Even if it doesn’t end up being very good, I’m always up for some janky stuff. Can never contain the thirst for jank.


#3

Bako’s ability does not, I’m afraid.


#4

So how does the interaction between Georgia Emelyov and this ID work? If the runner is running on her server and you redirect them does it count as an unsuccessful run on her server?


#5

If you deflect them to another server and they jack out, then Georgia will fire.


#6

What if you deflect them from Georgia’s server, then move her to their new server, then they jack out? Does she fire twice?


#7

An Offer You Can’t Refuse gains a lot of utility. Especially with Mushin No Shin, it’s not too difficult for the corp to build a remote server that the runner simply cannot run. Once you have that, An Offer onto a central server can redirect onto that remote server, and the runner still can’t jack out.

Being able to trade 4 credits and a card for one agenda point is certainly a very neat trick. Probably most at home for a rush deck to finish off the game (or finish off the runner). But with 17 influence, there are a lot of options… you could even consider a tag punishment deck that used Exchange of Information to trade that scored An Offer You Can’t Refuse for a better agenda.


#8

A big problem with AgInfusion is you’re going to set up a clever remote play and then the runner is going to drop Employee Strike and defuse it. It’s strategy doesn’t have a soft fail mode like many other IDs do against ES.

Excalibur and Whirlpool are going to be super fun mind :slight_smile:


#9

I don’t think it has, as you can’t rez ICE, so no replacement effect can take place.


#10

Rule question before I jump on theory : what happens if the Runner is deflected on a server which the outermost ice is unrezzed ? For what I understand, it’s to late for the Corp to rez that ice (approach phase not happening) and there’s nothing about encountering unrezzed Ice (except for Sapper, Chrysalis and Archangel during access).


#11

This is correct, the corp cannot rez the ice that the runner is now encountering.


#12

So the Runner have to break subs or let them fire even if unrezzed ?

That interesting. That also means that in that case (unrezzed ice), Datasucker tokens can’t be used and Parasite can’t be insta-installed. DDOS and Blackmail would not guarantee not to face plant something anymore.

Sounds sweet.


#13

Yeah, someone pointed this out in a game. I think it might warrant a quick clarification, but that sounds correct which is unfortunate for this ID.

As far as I know though, it DOES work for Account Siphon/Sneakdoor/Indexing/etc as it requires a successful run on that original server (ie. Lukas’ Siphon/Bullfrog ruling), but this might have changed with later rulings.


#14

I was going to explain how Ice isn’t active when it’s unrezzed, but I looked at the timing sheet and I don’t think there’s a clear precedent for this. AgInfusion clearly says the runner is encountering the ice, but in the timing structure, if the ice is unrezzed the encounter is skipped completely. We don’t actually have a ruling on what happens when the runner encounters an unrezzed ice.

I think it’s safe to guess that it’ll be clarified that unrezzed ice has no subs or text, so nothing can be broken and nothing will fire, but from a strict rules perspective this is uncharted territory.


#15

Exactly, what you say about timing sheet is what i wanted to point out.

Actually there’s a precedent on encountering unrezzed ice with Sapper, Chrysalis and Archangel accessed in R&D or HQ. They are not installed, though.

I think it may work like this (in case of unrezzed outermost ice) : deflect, reveal outermost ice, resolve encounters, set back ice face down, continue.

Also, no such wording on any deflector ice.


#16

Interesting play - use Shipment from Mirrormorph to install 3 ice, install a card, advance once. [Or some combination thereof.] Runner has to spend his entire turn trying to get into the remote to get the card, and it costs you nothing but the installation cost of the ice! Even better if you have another protection card in the server or an ELP, of course.


#17

I believe that was the exact scenario that led to the ID’s once per turn restriction :wink:


#18

With regard to what happens when you encounter installed, unrezzed ICE:

AgInfusion was featured during the gunslinging event at Worlds where the developers of the game played the deck. During that event, if a runner was redirected to a server with unrezzed outremost ICE, nothing happened. The encounter ended and the runner had the option to continue to the next ICE (if any) or jack out.

Assuming the developers were playing the card right, I think that’s how it will work in the wild.

We do need some rulings. For instance, how does Chum interact with AgInfusion? (I assume it counts as the next piece of ICE encountered, but it does no net damage because there were no routines to break, but what do I know).

EDIT from 8/31/17: this assumption about Chum was wrong. You don’t encounter unrezzed ICE.


#19

So the shenanigans will need to be combed with stuff like quarantine and boot camp. This might actually be good for bluffing - bringing your whirlpool online to make something look like a trap server.


#20

Wow.

I will put 3x Janus in those decks.

-edit- Even better : 3x Archer. Yeah, I think 3x Archer is mandatory there.

-edit2-
So I have in mind :
Influence is

  • 3x Archer
  • 3x Jackson
  • 2x FiHP
  • 2x Architect

All ices (19)

  • Sentries would be 3x Archer / 2x Architect
  • Codegates would be 3x Crick / 3x Chum (because lulz)
  • Barriers would be 3x Bako / 3x Chiyashi
  • “Trap” would be 2x Excalibur

Asset / upgrades (12)

  • 3x Jackson
  • 3x Will-o, or Caprice
  • 3x Allele repression
  • 3x PAD

Operations (9)

  • 3x Subliminal Messaging (allele combo exploit)
  • 3x Hedge Fund
  • 1x whatever money (or NASX, because allele/subliminal lulz there too)
  • 2x FiHP

9 Agendas, like the classic 1x Philotic + 2x FiP + 3x (Choose 2 from Braintrust, Nisei MK2 or Medical)