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Jinteki AgInfusion Discussion: The Farmer in the Hell


#41

Yeah. It’s actually a lot better now that Sifr isn’t the whole meta anymore. I think Ag for sure wants some number of them. Not 3, but certainly 1 and maybe 2. Worst case, you don’t have the cash to put the 2 where you want and one just goes on remote for your ID ability.


#42

The naîve way I’ve been building ag is lots of 3-ofs of big ICE & little throwaway things. 3x Chiyashi, 3x DNA, 3x Excalibur, 3x Pup, etc. 3-ofs of huge ICE is not that bad because you can just use the ones you can’t rez for ID triggers. That’s the theory, at least. It’s important to have threatening ICE and the unique part of the ID is your unrezzable monsters still do work.


#43

[quote=“phette23, post:42, topic:8690”]
3-ofs of big ICE & little throwaway things
[/quote]With Mutate?


#44

Now THIS is a fine idea. I haven’t been playing it but I like it.


#45

With Bamboo Dome or is there a better way?


#46

You can use Hasty Relocation or Heritage Committee as well.


#47

Here’s my take. Fairchild 3.0 is fantastic here, as is Inazuma if it’s on the outside.

Agenda (8)
1x Improved Protein Source (Fear the Masses)
3x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Upgrade (2)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (19)
2x Scarcity of Resources (Escalation)
1x Preemptive Action (Intervention)
1x Friends in High Places (Martial Law) •
2x Replanting (Station One)
3x IPO (Terminal Directive)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
2x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
2x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between) ••••

Barrier (3)
3x Chiyashi (Quorum)

Code Gate (7)
3x Fairchild 3.0 (Escalation) ••••• ••••
2x DNA Tracker (Escalation)
2x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)

Sentry (3)
3x Komainu (Honor and Profit)

ICE (4)
2x Chimera (Cyber Exodus)
2x Excalibur (The Source)

17 influence spent (maximum 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Terminal Directive


#48

Took Aginfusion and Adam to regionals today and got 3rd.
Aginfusion carried me, only dropped one game which I could have won if I saw the play.

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/43617/the-sensible-sandwich-3rd-melbourne-regionals


#49

AgInfusion has made some noise in Regionals this year but still seems to get less respect than Moons and SYNC.

Is AgInfusion a top tier contender, a novelty, or something else?


#50

AgInfusion is a lot of fun to play. As CodeMarvelous pointed out on stream, at least some AgIn builds are highly tactical. That gives the ID a lot of flexibility. Being able to dodge server-specific run events while having answers to EStrike and Rumor Mill opens up a number of lines of play, so I’m optimistic that AgIn is a contender for a very strong ID. (I am by no means a great player.)


#51

It’s good. I can’t say it’s top tier, as Moons and SYNC are just straight up more powerful, but if I can top 2 a regional with an AgInfusion deck with 18 ICE and an average rez cost of 6.27, then I think it’s pretty solid. I’d put it just below top tier.


#52

In my experience, this ID thrives right now in a meta where runners are split between Moons, Sync, and Ag. Runners are hard pressed to go fast against moons, have answers to sync, and deal with Ag effectively. Since Moons is the definitive deck to beat, and Ag being relatively new at this point players have a hard time dealing with it, and also have a hard time learning the still evolving deck. I don’t think it ever hits top tier because remote lock Shaper can deal with it fairly effectively, but that’s not where the meta is pushing runners currently. The few Shapers that do exist right now are LVD Faust decks. Those are potent, but the big ice and lack of cutlery makes the deck extremely taxing for them.


#53

I don’t think remote lock shapers have an easy time against Ag. Chiyashi is hella annoying, and making them run through the remote multiple times in a turn with either Caprice or the ID ability is really taxing. The biggest weakness is actually ParaSIFR (or even Reg-Ass anarch w/ Parasites) coupled with Medium. If an anarch can build a cheap rig, getting through most ice is rather trivial, and they will find a way to exploit your ice placement, or they’ll just melt it down and dig with Medium. The addition of Bloo Moose to bolster their economy certainly doesn’t help either.


#54

Took this to Gencon. Was the number 1 overall seed, and would’ve went farther than 0-2 in the cut if I didn’t misplay, and not overwrite the Vanilla ASAP v. Inversificator.

I have been playing Aginfusion since it arrived. It is a fantastic ID, mainly due to its versatility and influence. The first weekend it was out, we had Aaron Andries take a full on trap version to the Chicago Regional. It did well for him, and he would’ve made the cut if his Andy didn’t completely fail him. That version was a Mushin version, and was all about scoring a LabServers, or getting the opponent to facecheck a Whirlpool, then using the ID to send them into a majorly advanced trap. Fun times.

Since then, I have been tuning up a glacier build originally constructed by @zeromus. The crux was to use the ID and MKII tokens, along with Caprice, to defend the scoring remote, while utilizing the INF on nice ICE, econ, and tools like Crisium. This build has proven to be quite successful, and has done well in a variety of showings. @sirris took more of a control version to ATL, and won there. @Cerberus modified that, made it more lethal/grindy, and has dominated the UK scene with it. @basoon took a modified version from @webster to Durham, and won there.

Basically, the ID is quite good. It will suffer from the lack of burst econ going forward, post-rotation, and is making me rethink how to use the ID. With no Caprice, scoring is a little tougher (although I did rush out to a 5-0 lead in the first game of the cut at GC). Perhaps MCA Austerity in a remote, protected, can allow one to FA a MKII out? IDK.

re: my GC build
I was inspired by @eric_c and his Regional run with News Hounds, one of my all-time fave pieces of ICE. He didn’t share his build, so I constructed my own take. I was going to take more of what webster ran at GC, but in last minute testing, I found Sifr was quite problematic, and got scared. I figured that Hoyland’s build, just having made DOTW, would push more people to splash in the Sifr, and I pivoted to a faster, more flexible build. The result was impressive. I was prob. the only person on Scarcity in the cut, and it did heavy work all day. Almost all Runners in the current meta rely on resources to some degree, esp. with Bloo Moose being everywhere. Some dex, like Lock Hayley or DLR, completely fold up at the sight of Scarcity. If I get it Turn 1, I feel really good. Everytime I play it, I feel pretty good.

The ICE was another reason for my pivot. The build I was on was quite code gate heavy. That’s a little worrisome v. Invers, and even more so against a Yog/NRE/Carver/Sucker build that gets going. This build is more balanced, with more affordable ICE that is still taxing. Mimic/Sucker/Carver is the only effective way to deal with the Hound. Phage, Swords, and Excal all do work in a variety of matchups. IP Block and Chiyashi are nightmares for AI dex.

The GFIs were another change. I was testing with TFP or Obokata. I became more scared of seeing answers in FC, and also just like the idea of the Runner needing 4 agendas to win. This is a personal call, but, in a build not as taxing damage-wise (see: no Komainu/Snare/Cortex/etc.), GFI seems to be the way to go.

My big regret was changing Bako for Vanilla last minute. I love Bako, such great design, and nigh imperious. Cost me hard.

All in all, I was quite happy with the build, and Aginf in general. I am sad to see it be greatly diminished from its current state come rotation, but, we will see what we can do with it.


#55

I was really impressed with Eric’s build because it turns Employee Strike into a benefit for the News Hounds. Do you find Strike does much to hamper your game plan?


#56

If you were to free up some influence, would you trade some Scarcity -> Tar Mar or Vanilla -> IP Block?

Personally, I think of IP Block is the new Eli; a low cost barrier that is more taxing to break than it is to rez.

I’m less certain Tar Mar is an improvement over Scarcity, as you said, there are a number of different runner builds out there, but many rely on resources.

Did the Swordsmen do a lot of work for you?

One thing I really like about this ID is how much you can tech with your ICE slots. Excalibur, Swordsman, and Macrophage all vary widely in their utility depending on the matchup, but AgInf their value floor is elevated.


#57

While true of Macrophage and Swordsman, Excalibur is pretty good in most matchups, aside from those with non-Eater AI breakers. You can force a score with the card, so having it rezzed on your remote with unrezzed ice behind it or rezzed on archives is really scary for opponents that don’t have a way to deal with it.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if you’re not expecting Sifr, you can make your ICE huge on average. For instance, even with a match against Sifr (which I lost in a closer game than you’d think), I felt good despite my ice having an average rez cost of 6.3. When a facecheck is always punishing, the trade off is less horrible.


#58

I have little to no problem with EStrike in Aginf, with any build.

Nah. TarMar is a pet fave of mine, such a skill card, but Scarcity is really nice right now: Temu, Moose, Casts, etc.

Worked well v. Lock Hayley, where my opener was Swords HQ, Swords R&D, Scarce.


#59

Fun fact: I was super wrong about AgInfusion making An Offer You Can’t Refuse an important card.


#60

We should all learn from this experience and stop trying to make Offer decks happen.