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Laramy Fisk: No, YOU draw


#1

I noticed that with all the excitement over D&D, there has been very little talk about Laramy Fisk. Netrunnerdb has very few decks using him, and none that are recent.

Anyone working with him?

I haven’t done much criminal deck design and this was put together really quickly without testing, so I’m sure this is terrible, but I want this guy to work. I’m hoping this thread will start getting ideas around him rolling.

Here is a really quick first cut. It’s basically desperado/ST, but with extra HQ pressure. Drive By for shooting suspected Jacksons, Hades Shard to beat him to the punch.

No Room in HQ

Laramy Fisk: Savvy Investor (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Event (27)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Drive By (The Underway)
2x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Fisk Investment Seminar (The Universe of Tomorrow)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
3x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
3x Lucky Find (Double Time) [color=#708090]••••• •[/color]
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (5)
1x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]••[/color]
3x Desperado (Core Set)
1x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)

Resource (6)
1x Hades Shard (First Contact) [color=#708090]•[/color]
1x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (7)
1x Breach (Honor and Profit)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) [color=#32CD32]••[/color]

Program (3)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
1x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)
15 influence spent (max 15)
48 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Universe of Tomorrow

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#2

Looks nice. I think Fisk might have a shot, actually. The Legworks in here are great–obviously his ability has the potential to aggravate agenda flooding in HQ. Inside Jobs and Drive By to keep the remote honest. Fisk Investment Seminar is just amazing with him as well, far better than with other Criminals, who may just be giving Corp good cards that they want. With Fisk, the amount of draw can be too much to handle.

I think Criminal has a shot at being a surprise at Worlds, as corp decks are getting bold without the threat of Siphon these days. I’ll be testing him out for sure.

Is Lucky Find the best use of your influence, however? I suppose Fisk is one of those Crims that has a non-econ generating ability.


#3

He’s been fairly popular on Jinteki.net, and with good reason - he’s applying pressure in a different way to many runners, and he’s a lot of fun to corp against. FIS is also a fantastic card.

In combination with Gang Sign/HQI, the pressure can be immense. There have been times where I’ve IAA’d an agenda, only for Fisk to play FIS, push yet another card into my hand and then install one or both of the above. Now suddenly I’m sitting on at least two agendas in hand, with the chance that if I score out my own agenda the runner may steal two for the win…it’s scary.


#4

Gang Sign does seem like a great include.


#5

Fisk is basically “Man in the Red Dress”. Like Woman in the Red Dress, it’s a card that you play and it often actively helps your opponent by drawing them into the cards they need to beat you. That’s a really tough sell for me compared to other Criminals.

I don’t think he has the support in the current card pool needed to be competitive. You’d want the Corp to be repeatedly drawing uncomfortably many cards (say Investment Seminar + Eden Shard + Fisk trigger + mandatory draw is 7 cards added to HQ) and there’s not enough cards right now to pull that off more than occasionally.

I would be looking at Gang Sign + HQI and/or Nerve Agent with multiple Sneakdoors. Crescentus as well to slow the Corp down and bottleneck them on credits. A DLR submodule could be decent as well since you’re playing Hades.

No need to get fixated on HQ though, you can still attack R&D with Medium and use the ability to peel off cards you’ve already seen from the top, giving you fresh accesses below.


#6

I have played against a couple Laramy Fisks on OCTGN and have been surprised. He can actually be pretty powerful. I think the key to winning with Fisk is flooding the corp early and winning before they can take advantage of all the cards you’re giving them. Gang Sign + HQI is very effective outside of Fisk, but even more so when you’re flooding the corp.

Also, I would like to apologize to all the unfortunate Laramy Fisk players for playing Industrial Genomics :stuck_out_tongue:


#7

So let’s take a hop in my time machine back to a little place I like to call: Boardgamegeek 2 years ago ~~ woooooshhhhh ~~

Here we find, legendary criminal player Jopejope, high on a soapbox, leveraging his fame into lobbying for Fisk

>**Originally Posted by: Jopejope, boardgamegeek.com, 10/09/2013**

> Hey BGG Netrunners!  JopeJope here.  You might remember me from some 
> strategy articles I posted over in the Strategy forums.  I haven't 
> posted in a while, but I just wanted to take a moment to tell you guys 
> why you should vote for LARAMY FISK at this month's Plugged In tour.

> Do
>  you like making fun and interesting decks?  Do you like the challenge 
> and creativity that goes into deck-building?  Do you like picking a 
> theme and building a deck around that theme, even if it might not be the
>  most competitive deck possible?  If so, then I probably don't really 
> need to talk to you, because you're already planning to vote for Laramy 
> Fisk at the Plugged In tour.  Thanks for your support!

> But just 
> in case you were thinking about voting for The Collective (We Hate The 
> Collective), consider all the wonderful deck-building options that 
> Laramy Fisk gives you!

> - You can force the corp to draw a card.  
> Yes! FORCE them to draw it!  Even if they wanted to draw a card anyway. 
>  Now, they have to draw a card on YOUR terms.  This is more powerful 
> than you might think.  How so?  Figuring that out is part of the fun.

> -
>  You get 15 out-of-faction influence points.  PLUS, you can play as many
>  criminal cards as you want.  Think of the deck-building variety!  Where
>  else can you get 15 out-of-faction influence points?  Certainly NOT 
> with The Collective (We Hate The Collective), no sir!

> Now some of
>  you, (perhaps those of you whose names start with Spike) might be 
> thinking of voting for The Collective (We Hate The Collective) because 
> of the allure of their seemingly powerful ability.  I'll admit, getting 
> an extra click every turn does seem powerful.  However, not only 
> is this an extremely BORING ability, but it really isn't as good as you 
> might think compared to the advantages that Laramy Fisk brings to the 
> table.

> Consider this awesome Laramy Fisk deck:

> Identity:
> Laramy Fisk: Savvy Investor (Of Course!) 


> Total Cards: (45)

> Event: (21)
> Account Siphon (Core) x3 
> Inside Job (Core) x3 
> Special Order (Core) x3 
> Sure Gamble (Core) x3 
> The Maker's Eye (Core) x3 ■■
> Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus) x3 
> Forged Activation Orders (Core) x2 
> Deja Vu (Core) x1 ■■

> Hardware: (6)
> Desperado (Core) x3 
> Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x3 

> Program: (12)
> Corroder (Core) x3 ■■
> Yog.0 (Core) x1 ■
> Ninja (Core) x1 
> Femme Fatale (Core) x2 
> Sneakdoor Beta (Core) x3 
> Crypsis (Core) x2 

> Resource: (6)
> Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3 
> Compromised Employee (Trace Amount) x3 

> Influence Values Totals - 
>  Anarch: 9 
>  Criminal: 62
>  Shaper: 6


> "Now wait just a minute!" I hear you saying, "You just took an ordinary criminal deck and replaced the identity with Laramy Fisk!"

> That's
>  very true, observant reader!  And thank you for pointing that out!  Let
>  me explain why this is good, and why Laramy Fisk is BETTER than Gabe in
>  this scenario.

> Look Spike, we all know that you can stomp every 
> corp on the block with your Criminal deck.  It's an awesome deck.  You 
> win nearly all of your games.  But let me ask you this:  Can you STILL 
> win if you don't gain 2 credits from running HQ?  Can you STILL win if 
> you don't draw an extra 4 cards at the beginning of the game?  More 
> importantly, can you STILL win if the corp gets to draw a bunch of extra
>  cards, which you will force them to do regardless of whether or not it 
> is in your best interest?

> Aha! Now things are getting 
> interesting!  That extra difficulty is what will push YOU to be a better
>  player, AND help you tune and optimize your deck against those few 
> times when you lose.

> Which is better for a criminal deck, 
> Infiltration or Forged Activation Orders?  Is Daily Casts really better 
> than Arimitage Codebusting?  How will you ever know if you just win 
> regardless of which card you include in your deck?  Can you really 
> distinguish between an 86% win rate and an 88% win rate if you only play
>  5 games per week?  I don't think so!  But with Laramy Fisk, you'll 
> actually feel the difference, because you'll actually lose (gasp!) more 
> often without that huge economic leg-up you're used to having against 
> the corporation.

> Laramy Fisk is the perfect training tool to help
>  make your Spike Criminal deck even Spikey-er.  Then you swap back in 
> Gabe or Andromeda and you're tournament ready.

> "But wait!" says 
> Johnny, "What about those fun and interesting decks you promised!  How 
> do I actually take advantage of Laramy Fisk's ability?"

> Good 
> question! You like to have FUN when playing Netrunner, and what is more 
> fun than making your opponent squirm even as you give them the 
> "advantage" of drawing extra cards?

> Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

> Identity:
> Laramy Fisk: Savvy Investor (Of Course!)

> Total Cards: (45)

> Event: (14)
> Vamp (Trace Amount) x2 ■■
> Account Siphon (Core) x3 
> Sure Gamble (Core) x3 
> Special Order (Core) x2 
> Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control) x1 
> Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus) x3 

> Hardware: (6)
> Desperado (Core) x3 
> Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead) x3 

> Program: (14)
> Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
> Crypsis (Core) x3 
> Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow) x3 
> Sneakdoor Beta (Core) x3 
> Magnum Opus (Core) x2 ■■
> Paricia (Creation and Control) x2 ■

> Resource: (11)
> Bank Job (Core) x2 
> Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3 
> Data Leak Reversal (Future Proof) x3 ■
> Daily Casts (Creation and Control) x3 

> Influence Values Totals - 
>  Anarch: 9 
>  Criminal: 50
>  Shaper: 6

> When
>  does the corp LEAST want to draw cards?  That's right: when they're 
> broke.  This deck keeps them that way.  Hit them with the Account 
> Siphon/Vamp one-two punch.  Then see how much they like all those extra 
> cards.  As they are forced to play or discard all their non-agendas, 
> they're going to be wishing they were playing against GABE, who merely 
> gains two credits for a successful run on HQ rather than stealing all of
>  their precious agendas.  Sneakdoor + Pheromones means you can get in 
> when you want to.  It will be VERY hard to keep you out.  Magnum Opus 
> funds Vamp and Crypsis, while Paricia and Bank Job deals with their econ
>  assets to keep them broke without going bankrupt yourself.  Dataleak 
> Reversal combined with Laramy's ability should give you a ton of R&D
>  pressure (remember that Fisk almost has a built-in R&D Interface, particularly when the corp can't afford to rez ice on R&D) if it does not deck the corporation right out.

> This
>  is just one of many decks that you can build with this interesting new 
> identity, and that's just with cards that have been released so far.  By
>  the time Laramy Fisk is actually released, there will be even more 
> options.

> So, as you can see, Laramy Fisk is an awesome identity, and is clearly just what Netrunner needs in order to solve all problems.

> But
>  before I leave you, wise voter, I would like to very briefly, but for 
> as long as I can bare, contemplate the HORRIBLE, DARK WORLD, that will 
> come to be if (somehow) The Collective (We Hate The Collective) should 
> win the Plugged In tour vote.

> The not-too-distant future.  
> Thomas and Spike are playing a game of Android:Netrunner.  They have 
> setup a crude table in the remains of what used to be a game store, 
> trying their best to find a sense of normalcy in what remains of 
> civilization. Spike is playing The Collective (We Hate The Collective) 
> and has already scored 4 agenda points.

> Spike: "Okay, for my third click, I run HQ."

> Thomas: "OK... I rez Viktor 2.0.  It looks like you can't break that, so I..."

> Spike: "Wait, I spend two clicks to break both routines."

> Thomas: "What?  You only have 1 click left."

> Spike: "Right, but I gained an extra click from my identity ability, since this is my third run of the turn."

> Thomas: "But your other runs were on different servers, so they aren't the same action."

> Spike:
>  "Of course they are!  One of the actions you can do is make a run.  So 
> that's the action that I've done three times.  It's the same action even
>  if they are different servers."

> Thomas:  "I don't think that's what 'same' means."

> Spike: "It is!  Lukas ruled that you could gain a click after three runs on different servers.  It's a thread on BoardGameGeek."

> Thomas: "What's BoardGameGeek?"

> Spike: "It's a website where .... look, nevermind, let's just ask Jim, OK?"

> Jim:
>   "Don't get me involved in this.  The last time I played against 
> Thomas, I had three Sure Gambles in my opening hand, and he wouldn't let
>  me take an extra click after playing them."

> Thomas: "One of those was an alternate art Sure Gamble!"

> Spike: "It's still the same action!"

> Thomas:
>  "Look, even if I were to grant that these three different runs were 
> somehow the same action, you still wouldn't be able to break Viktor 2.0.
>   It says you have to 'perform' the same action, and you haven't 
> finished 'performing' your action of running HQ.  So you don't even have
>  the extra click yet."

> Spike: "No, I do! Because I have performed the action by initiating the run.  That's what it means to perform an action is to initiate it."

> Thomas:
>  "That doesn't make sense.  You have very strange definitions for the 
> words 'same' and 'perform'.  Maybe your English is not very good?"

> Spike: "You jerk!  English is my first language!"

> Jim:
>  "Calm down Spike.  Look, Thomas, I'm with Spike about the three runs 
> being the same action, but honestly I'm not sure if he gets the click 
> now or at the end of the run."

> Thomas: "Well I already rezzed my ice.  Had I known we were playing that way I might have rezzed differently."

> Spike:
>  "Look, fine, we'll play it your way for now.  But so you know it was 
> ruled that three runs are the same action even if they are on different 
> servers."

> Thomas: "Ok, well, I'm not boosting the trace, and you still have an action left"

> Spike: "OK, I beat the trace ... and ... umm.... I'll run R&D I guess."

> Thomas: "OK, the ice is rezzed so that will cost you.... 5 credits to get in?"

> Spike: "Yeah, OK, let me see the top card ... Oh it's Priority Requisition!  I win."

> Thomas: "Hooray.  Let's play something else?"

> They
>  move on with their lives, for now, but later that evening Jim is 
> distracted by thoughts of Netrunner card rulings and stubs his toe, and 
> 35 years later Spike dies of cancer.

> DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN.  VOTE FISK!

> (This
>  post has been paid for by The Laramy Fisk Campaign, The Laramy Fisk 
> Family Trust, Citizens for a Better Bioroid, and The We Hate The 
> Collective Collective)

----
*"I am faced with the choice of two identities.  Laramy seems weak and doesnt interest me at all, I dont think I'll play him. The printing of this card will be approximately a null event - it wont really impact the game at all."*
*-- Alex "Alexfrog" Rockwell, c.a. 2013*

----

#8

You should apologize to all players, and netrunner in general, for playing IG :kissing:


#9

I’ve been convinced recently by discussion elsewhere on the forums that making the corp draw a lot in the early game is really good for aggro runners. That seems like it would make Fisk good, but actually it just makes me wonder whether he’s really necessary if you’re already running 3x Investment Seminar. Will the one extra card a turn really be enough to play him over:

a) Leela, who punishes the corp for trying to score the agendas Seminar gives them, and creates a landslide if you steal them instead;
b) Gabe, who gives you money to get set up faster and access a lot before the corp can get rid of the agendas they’re drawing with Seminar;
c) Geist, who plays Siphon better than any other criminal because he can gain tempo from shaking tags rather than losing it thanks to Decoy/Forger;
d) Andy, who- well, we all know why Andy is good.

My initial thinking is that any of these other criminals with 3x Seminar will be better than Fisk, but I haven’t tested him yet so look forward to being proven wrong.


#10

I think Fisk has loads of potential. The thing that’s holding him back is the same thing holding back Criminals as a faction in general - the fact that Shaper and Anarch are so much faster at the moment. As an ID I think he’s every bit as good as the others.

The threat of making the Corp over-draw agendas and flooding is significant, do not underestimate the value of the single card draw per turn. Consider also that Fisk can still get value from the central run (access, Datasucker, John Masanori, Sec Test etc.) Desperado is the obvious console choice, but Vigil could make sense too since the Corp will often be sitting on a full hand. I think the secret will be whether Fisk can snipe Jacksons from R&D - if he can then the agenda flood is a legitimate threat.


#11

I hereby offer my remorseful regret at having interns get back another 6-trash Sundew.


#12

That BGG post seems to be “play Fisk because he’s bad”. Suffice to say, this doesn’t really interest me.


#13

As a big fan of corp side rush decks, I strongly encourage all runners to switch to Fisk immediately upon release. Please, we need the help with all those Faust decks around right now.


#14

I kind of want to try the paparazzi/wireless pavilion/DLR/fall guy jank in Fisk. Probably terrible, but it’ll be good for a laugh :smiley:


#15

Running =/= Sitting back to DLR

I think it’s as bad as it sounds.


#16

I agree, Fisk and DLR don’t seem to combo.

But maybe Fisk Investment Seminar and DLR do combo. 3 cards instead of one per click with seminar.


#17

If you can make one run on r&d, and it’s a trashable card, and you made the Corp draw, you can mill 3 more with dlr, and then 1 more if you have Joshy B. That’s 6 cards right there, more if your first click was fis. I think there is room to make a dlr deck with fisk


#18

Took this chap for a spin last night and I think he’s got some pretty good game. I only picked up 1 in 3 wins, but had some random thoughts from them. Both to Supermodernism variants, and a win vs HB.

Same ol’s to recur your seminars. So important. I would even run 3, but I’m not sure that’s enough. I even start considering other recursion like deja’s possibly to keep them firing.

Rush corps, or corps that are looking to install often, are such a bad match-up. As noted in the thread previously. All your flood tactics result in suck if you don’t get your key pieces up and running asap. Which makes me think that:

HQ interface and Gang Sign’s are crucial as (like the seminar). Getting them into play, while managing economy, within the first couple of turns, makes me think he must run more standard card draw. Probably quality times, maybe Earthrises, but he needs them on the board as soon as possible.

Central’s are an important target, but he needs remote pressure quickly. This is the first crim in a while that I think wants and needs three inside jobs. They also really support your eden shard, which is a cool little combo.

With HQ interfaces in play, a forced draw on an HQ run is like a bad faux rnd run. But I’m certain I picked up some points this way.

Corp cash denial tactics are going to be crucial. Siphons naturally, but FAO’s can be huge here. The only thing keeping the corp flooded is their inability to use the cards they have, so cash denial is pretty essential imo.

I’m sold though, haven’t enjoyed crim as much as this. Will keep fiddling and looking forward to hearing your experiences as well.


#19

Same old thing can’t recur priority events like seminar?


#20

Yeah, Page 7 of the FAQ

Seminar seems really important for Fisk’s game plan, but I guess time will tell if paying the influence for Déjà Vu will be worth it