Home | About | Tournament Winning Decklists | Forums

Let's make a pact - Faust discussion


#1

Right Faust:

It’s a new anarch AI breaker, it looks pretty good. I think it’s worth discussing and theorycrafting a bit about. When I’ve played a bit I might write an article.

It asks us an interesting question. “What is the value of 1 card in our grip?” The value of cards in hand is clearly more than 1 credit (which I think we already knew). I think if the cost were 2 creds for each of Faust’s abilities then it would probably see some play. I don’t think people would be as excited. Like AI breakers often are, it’s really good against early game binary ICE like ice wall, enigma, datapike, quandary, rototurret. It’s probably no good vs big multisub ICE like Tsurugi, Hive. It’s perfect for breaking Komainu! I don’t think many of us are paying 7 cards to go through an exterior Curtain Wall any time soon - but who breaks those anyway. It’s awkward against kill decks. Especially those running snare. Datasucker helps a lot.

If history teaches us one thing, it’s that Pancakes are the food of the Devil. Wyldside and Adjusted Chronotype is the most efficient long term solution for drawing cards. This leads to the conclusion that Noise (who likes pancakes and doesn’t often invest in efficient ice breaking solutions) likes Faust. Here’s my first stab at the Pancake Pact:

The Pancake Pact

Noise: Hacker Extraordinaire (Core Set)

Event (9)

Hardware (3)

  • 3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) ••••• •

Resource (15)

Icebreaker (2)

Program (15)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Underway

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

This deck started as @kiv’s Party All Knight list. It probablly hasn’t changed enough. I’m not sure taking the knights out completely was the best plan. Is there a need for hotels as well as parties?

@mediohxcore suggested that Andy might like it for a turn 1 siphon. I can see that, I wonder what sort of draw engine you could create in Criminal (3 earthrise, 3 Quality Time perhaps). 2 inf is a steal for a pretty efficient swiss army knife.

I can think deep into the jank tank in shaper with a giant hand size (Bagbiter???), Game Day.

I do think all emergency Crypsis should most likely be upgraded to Faust. I’m not certain where Headlock stands. I’d be interested to hear the hive mind’s thoughts on that.

So what are your thoughts on Faust. Does it change everything? Is it flavour of the month? Is it somewhere in between? I like it a lot, it’s interesting game design and I think makes Noise somewhere close to top tier. I think any anarch deck with a primarily AI plan should consider it. I wonder how best to mould the econ package to support it.

Surely it should be called Mephistopheles?


Underway Set Review
#2

e3 Feedback Implants.

Also, it’s perfect for breaking Komainu? What? Using Faust to break Komainu is literally the same as just letting it fire. Unless you’re talking about pitching your hand during 2.3 so Komainu has no subroutines, in which case… it’s exactly the same as letting Komainu fire?


#3

I would be interested in trying it out with E3 Implants, just to see where it ends up. If you bring E3 in, my thinking is why not do it Quetzal (Break Eli for 1 credit? Sure!) and bring D4V1D along for the ride. Knight could help patch some awkward holes and serve as a nice source of “weak” ice destruction to go with actual ice destruction so you don’t end up trashing away your whole deck.


#4

Here’s where I’ve gotten so far:

The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Quetzus

Quetzal: Free Spirit

Event (7)
2x Career Fair ••
3x Inject
1x Levy AR Lab Access •••
1x Stimhack

Hardware (7)
3x Clone Chip ••••• •
2x e3 Feedback Implants ••••
1x Grimoire
1x Plascrete Carapace

Resource (19)
2x Adjusted Chronotype
3x Daily Casts
2x Earthrise Hotel
1x Ice Carver
2x Kati Jones
3x Liberated Account
3x Street Peddler
3x Wyldside

Icebreaker (3)
3x Faust

Program (9)
2x D4v1d
2x Datasucker
2x Medium
3x Parasite

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Underway

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

It’s real, it’s good, but it’s not perfect. It may want a Knifed, it may want a Deja Vu or a SoT just to preserve the Levy. It may want Vigil over Grimoire, it may not need a console at all. I don’t think it wants to go over 45, because there are key pieces of the deck you want ASAP. It may want some extra HQ pressure, or another plascrete, or maybe even some hand size modifiers. But this deck is very strong, and the potential is there.


#5

E3 is probably a good idea. Is it good enough to upset Noise’s influence package?

I was being sarcastic about Komainu - I’m very much aware that Faust doesn’t help much, if at all. It means you can’t be killed by a whirlpool/komainu/cell-portal meatgrinder…

@hhooo I’m surprised that the third datasucker isn’t a good plan. You’re drawing like a madman, so it’s probably fine. I very much like the deck. Is lamprey a real card? Are career fairs better than crescentus when you’re not breaking ICE with money? Has that deck already been made and popularised, maybe I should stop veering towards it.


#6

That 3 credit install cost seems back-breaking to me. I don’t know the cardpool that well right now, but it’s pretty similar to Darwin in my mind. I’d think anything that made darwin “work” (to whatever extent it ever did) would be a good place to start with faust.

So historically that’d be Kate and Exile.


#7

I was going to go with Datasucker #3, but; I’m already running Career Fair, I’m only running 1 console, and Medium, 1 DS, Faust, David, and Parasite all want memory, and the unpurgability of Ice Carver convinced me to stick with it over sucker.

Career Fair is more synergistic with overdrawing, which this deck will do frequently, and Crescentus can punish a slow econ start by the corp, but you aren’t actually pressuring the Corp’s econ much in this deck, just threatening early remotes with Faust/Quetz and cards.

Lamprey is probably too much on the memory, but it’s pushing things just in the direction of Headlock, which this deck is a far cry from.


#8

You guys probably got it right, but I got so exited over an Edward Kim rush deck that could actually get early accesses, so I went all in and built this.

The Real Ed Kim

Edward Kim: Humanity’s Hammer

Event (23)
3x Diesel ••••• •
1x Forked
3x I’ve Had Worse
3x Inject
2x Knifed
2x Levy AR Lab Access ••••• •
3x Quality Time •••
2x Queen’s Gambit
1x Spooned
3x Sure Gamble

Hardware (3)
1x Brain Cage
2x Turntable

Resource (9)
3x Adjusted Chronotype
3x Armitage Codebusting
3x Wyldside

Icebreaker (3)
3x Faust

Program (7)
3x D4v1d
3x Medium
1x Nerve Agent

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Underway

It plays odd, and if you don’t see 1st turn Faust (after mulligan and using all your draw effects), you pretty much lose. Also, Brain Cage is a waste of a card slot, I always feed it to Faust, so recommendations are welcome, as always.


#9

I just love the idea of Faust eating pancakes. Well done.


#10

I assume you meant to say Pfannkuchen?


#11

I am probably thinking too hard about worst case scenarios. This deck is a very linear deck, with razor sharp R&D focus. If the corp stacks a bunch of architects and lotus fields there you can’t do much about it. Icecarver as a ‘bad’ third datasucker makes a lot of sense. Neat list!


#12

This is probably the best name for a deck in a long time.


#13

I had all the same thoughts as you: Grimoire seems unnecessary (Vigil or Turntable or use your memory better (Imp?)), could use more ice destruction (Knifed, Spooned), would like some HQ pressure (Vamp, Wanton). A 3rd Datasucker would also be nice.

I like the money durdle -> Vamp plan (you can play Vigil), but it makes me worry that you can’t win if the corp out-moneys you. Wanton seems like a great Faust card, though.


#14

I think so. Especially with the WyldCakes to help you recover.


#15

I and a couple others ran 1 Corroder, 2 Knight, 2 Mimic, 2 D4v1d as the breaker package in Noise; it gives you excellent odds of having an answer to any given piece of ICE with very little redundancy. Between 1 Corroder and 2 D4v1d, you have 3 excellent answers to Wraparound, you need 2 Mimic to deal with Architect, and 2 Knights cover everything else (e.g., Lotus Field) and act as backups in an emergency.

The weaknesses of this package are medium-strength gear checks, in particular Enigma, which are annoying to Parasite and expensive to break with Knight. Architect, being impossible to Parasite, is also a bad time.

Since Faust is pretty much a straight upgrade over Knight for Noise (suck it, Enigma!), and Faust + Datasucker is also a totally viable answer to Architect, I would try:

1 Corroder
2 or 3 Faust
0 or 1 Mimic
2 D4v1d


#16

My thoughts on Faust are that it can be a good secondary breaker to compliment a regular breaker suite. I think that in Anarch it helps especially if you are running 3 copies of unique cards which is typical for an Anarch deck. With Faust those cards now have more utility outside of also increasing the consistency of your deck. I think that Wyldesyde/Adjusted Chronotype draw engine is perfect as you generally want to run 3 copies of each.


#17

Also, I am very much not on the E3 train. Maybe, maybe, in a Criminal Faust deck.

What commonly-played ICE actually has more than 2 subroutines?

- Curtain Wall, which you aren’t breaking with Faust anyway

  • Errand Boy, which I think only I actually play, and you can just let 1 sub fire, and which you should probably Parasite anyway
  • Hive, which…okay, that’s actually pretty annoying
  • Ichi 1.0, where you usually don’t bother to break the third sub anyway
  • NEXT Silver, which you should just Parasite unless you’re playing Criminal
  • Tsurugi, where it has exactly 4 subs and so is pretty efficient to just break with Faust…and you should just Parasite it

I think that’s it? E3 still has all the problems it had before (like how it’s dead vs. NBN). I don’t think Faust is a good reason to add it - you’re only getting substantial value against Hive and the new Weyland barrier (if people play that), and the opportunity cost of a card is pretty high these days.

Ignore me, Faust only breaks 1 subroutine per discard, not 2.


#18

Eli, Architecht, Grail…


#19

If I don’t have to discard multiple cards to break the ICE you mentioned, then I’m much happier. E3 with Quetzal is practically non-negotiable; you make every Weyland deck very sad and the look on their face when you kill an Oversighted Curtain Wall with nothing but your ID and E3 makes it all worthwhile.

@hhooo, I really want to add Knifed to stop double Wraparound bullshit, but the only cards I can think about trying to cut are Ice Carver, and maybe a D4v1d, but I don’t know; I won’t be able to really play this until Friday.


#20

Whoops, I thought Faust broke 2 subs per card for some reason. My bad.