There’s also the option of Multithreaders, which might cost the same as a Data Folding to install but immediately pay out two credits for use with programs, in case you need to run that turn.
I’m running Yog and two stickers in my current build and it works really well. The suckers synergize with Jak and smooth out the breakers, and Yog solves the Striker problem.
I think Multithreader is bad. I make a lot of runs using Jak and Nexus, just paying traces and clicking bioroids, and there are plenty of turns where I just don’t find the need to run.
My answer, clearly, was Faust. You could also slot powerful 2 MU programs like Keyhole and Sneakdoor Beta, although those also suffer from anti-synergy with Jak.
At the moment, I agree that Paricia is probably the thing to do: Paricia / Dirty Laundry is the kind of opening that actually allows you to trash a turn 1 Sensie. Scrubber I think is notably worse here because of its cost.
Scrubber has two advantages over Paricia.
1.) Can be used during Jak runs.
2.) Is a connection.
I guess it also can be used to trash anything, which isn’t that big of a deal now days (besides freaking san-san).
I think Paricia is probably the better use of MU given the meta right now, but I can also see some builds that pack scrubber being useful.
Yeah, Scrubber for OCA Sunny is pretty solid, the draw you get from playing offsets the 2c cost a bit, and you can also get very delayed repayment with Calling in Favors…
Supplier builds also, maybe?
Is Temujin or Liberated + Career Fair worth a look?
Temujin probably isn’t as good right now for Sunny, but I feel like it is a powerful and cheap enough econ engine that Sunny or Adam could pretty reasonably import it.
Stack that with Datasuckers and Jak and that seems at least decent.
I know Liberated isn’t quite worth it. It doesn’t give the clickless econ like Daily Casts, and Kati Jones can do the same without taking up influence.
I played Temujin in Sunny tonight and it actually felt really solid. I played it next to John Masanori and Datasucker + Multithreader.
Both games I was able to drop it and profit off of it thanks to either my drip or career fair.
It also allowed me to make a profit off of late game runs thanks to multithreader. It meant I could actually apply pressure late game to HQ to fish for those agendas that were pooling there.
As a small sample size, these games have me pretty hopeful. I am not sure how I should spend influence beyond the 9 yet, but it seems like a great start.
The time I think I’d really need Liberated creds is when I want to maintain tempo when I drop Security Nexus. Otherwise drip econ and Dirty Laundry usually keep me flowing in money. Usually.
I’m thinking the upcoming Blockade Runner might be good with Sunny? A lot of times I have an extra breaker or Nexus in hand, and it’s only 1 influence.
Just to be clear I played Temujin in Sunny. I found it helped me maintain burst creds and give me the money to set up my rig and later actually maintain aggression, while my drip gave me money to either flex credits or maintain aggression.
Blockade Runner seems fine. I think its best in a deck that wants to run either Oracle May and/or Eureka. Being able to shuffle your big stuff back in is a pretty big bonus and is probably the key to making the card truly click efficient. Otherwise why not run Express Delivery?
Technically speaking, Blockade Runner is click efficient in the same way Mr. Li is. You spend two clicks, and get two cards.
Just like Mr. Li, though, the story doesn’t end there. Li shines in a deck filled with 1-ofs and Silver Bullets (Logos is a natural include in those sorts of decks too). I feel you’re right; if you want Blockade Runner to be truly better than just clicking for cards, you have to want to shuffle a card in your hand back in for some reason. Currently, May and Eureka are the best ways to do that. (Perhaps there’s a deck that exists that tries to empty its stack as quickly as possible, and then Blockade Runner + May/Eureka/Windfall?)
Because it’s such a narrow effect and it doesn’t add Velocity, just Selection, I don’t think Sunny wants it… (We don’t run silver bullets, except NACH. We just need a Volume of cards to get set up, and this doesn’t help with that problem.)
In testing a more aggressive Sunny, I think there’s something there that wasn’t there before. I’m not sure what did it, but Masanori + Jak + Nexus + SecTest is a very powerful engine that spins up pretty quickly. The hurdle is the 8 credit install on Nexus, but you only need that once they have their servers single-iced.
I definitely like this idea and I think I’ll give it some testing. Faust has never struck me as a particularly decent Sunny option; Sunny still wants to set up for the lategame and Faust sacrifices lategame efficiency. (Unless you’re destroying the ICE with Cutlery, which is a fine strategy, but Sunny can’t pull off due to influence.) Similarly, I like Yog.0 as a supplement to Sunny’s breaker suite. Sunny’s breakers are ridiculously strong, but also ridiculously expensive. You’re correct in that Striker is the worst-positioned of her breakers against common ICE. And Yog shores that up without being a lategame tax.
Personally you’ve missed one option for Sunny’s MU: Overmind. This is what I’m currently using and it seems to work decently. (Sage is technically also an option, especially because it reinforces SunnyBreaker weaknesses to Wall of Static and Enigma, but it is still relatively expensive to break ICE with. Notably, it’s no better than Striker vs Enigma.)
Temujin is great, but I think it’s more fragile econ in Sunny than some other decks (I’m testing it in Kit, feels good) because a single Vanilla/Quandary/Pup/YouNameIt makes it not great because your breakers suck. In the late game I’d rather have Mopus because late game Sunny swims in clicks. Liberated is only ever good in anarch.
Blockade Runner is crap. You don’t want to shuffle your breakers/Nexus back just because you don’t need them right now. You could need them next turn.
Overmind is ok, at least it breaks Vanillas and stuff for free a few times. Still doesn’t stop the corp from rushing behind a Wraparound. I think any Overminds could be replaced with extra copies of normal breakers - Sherman in particular. Inti is just 1 influence too.
Yeah, Wraparound is really good against Overmind. Which is what Wraparound is for. The reason to use Overmind is that it allows me to challenge every server with only one breaker, which is what I want from my AI breaker in Sunny. I don’t need to use it as a regular breaker all the time like the Eater+Keyhole or Faust builds in Anarch, I just need it to be able to run a server with one or two breakers out. I can’t just plop a Sherman and run the remote in case they rez a Rototurret. (This, btw, is why Nexus is so damn good. It does let you run a server with one less breaker installed.)
Knight does all the things Overmind does and also lets you get through Wraparound, or it lets you get into servers more often, or it destroys an ICE, all of which are Things That Are Good For You. So I want to go test it.
Mostly, I worry about the influence hit for the ‘getting in while setting up’ breakers. Because you need them early, you have to include 3x, so that exacerbates the influence cost of anything not neutral. Which is why I’ve started out with Overmind. Overmind has at least convinced me that the 3x deck slot is worth being used for this purpose, so now I just need to decide if it’s worth spending influence on, too.
Spending influence on Inti makes me want to throw up. There’s no reasonable world where I’d include Inti in a Sunny deck. Sherman is better in almost every way, except install cost.
I meant synergistic. The card is made for Eureka decks. Its pretty worthless outside of that scenario.
Your breakers do suck, but Temujin does two things that Sunny kinda needs.
1.) Speeds up your early game. I am talking your turn 1-3. You get to drop it and run three times to make some quick bank. Sunny really, really needs this to get most of her expensive stuff online.
2.) Strengthens your late game. Suddenly your chosen server costs 4 less credits to run. Kinda. With recurring credits it still stands to make you a cred or two and net you an access.
You can get around this by running Mimic/Yog as well.
I didn’t have the “inefficiency” problem thanks to multithreader and solid play. I actually forced the corp to ice servers they did not want to ice (archives, asset economy) due to Temujin. It gave me the initial burst I needed to install other cards I needed and later on it provided a 4 credit free “click”.
Also, you can just install over the card with a new copy if your money making server becomes too expensive to break.
But if you are having that problem, I would say run Liberated instead. But I am not having that problem quite so much in the CtM meta.
You are right on all points. I actually posted the same arguments in the Kit thread yesterday… and with Multithreaders you are kind of having the same advantage as Kit, only later. But in asset spam meta with ice light corps this hardly matters.
However, should you run into the still not-so-occasional single remote EtF deck they usually have no problem dropping one ICE on archives early. You can still do the day job play with click 1 Temujin drop like you said (extra value for laundry runs) before they’re onto it.
It’s very likely better than Lucky Find at the moment, so I should probably also throw it in to replace those. It’s just not as reliable as it is in crim and (in my experience) Kit. Liberated though, I would put Mopus in over that any day.
Only major problem with Mopus in Sunny is that it requires you to run Modded instead of Career fair.
I guess it technically isn’t a requirement… but it kind of feels like it is.
It is true that I did play Mopus with Modded in one build*. However, worth noting that Career Fair is a heavily overworked card in Sunny already with Earthrise, Casts and Folding, so adding more targets is quite unlikely to add more value.
If you have the influence to put into money, Temujin is probably the best right now. If for some reason you can’t play it, I think I’d rather play Lucky Find (for burst), Modded (for setup) or Mopus (for late game) before considering Liberated.
- The other build I tried Mopus in was a short and very disappointing experiment with Chatterjee University. That card just does not work.
My build doesn’t run Folding. I feel like Folding is actually delaying your economy too much most of the time, especially if it comes down to running casts and folding. My goal right now is to actually fill my MU with support programs.
I also like Deuces with Temujin. Its probably not worth it, but its nice being able to gain 2, draw 2 and expose a piece of ice.
I agree with this in theory, but in practice what ends up happening is that I need to hit at least 3 drip cards before I can start running regularly with Sunny. (Or +3 Link and Nexus) Because of this, adding 3 more chances to hit them in the 50 card deck is worth the efficiency hit vs Daily Casts.
Running Daily Casts is the equivalent of betting that the game will be over before 8 turns after you play it. (Data Folding is better in eight turns, so if you think the game will last longer than 8 turns, Folding is a better play.) This means Daily Casts is also a better draw than Folding in the mid/late game, while Folding is better early game.
It’s so difficult for me to identify what it is that makes me win with Sunny. The only thing I can say for certain doesn’t help me win with Sunny is finding my breakers early. (Overmind helps sometimes, but I mean specifically the SunnyBreakers. I don’t need those until I have other stuff.) I’m pretty sure I need 3 or more Drip pieces, and I know that games are definitely easier the faster I install Nexus. Games feel easier when I have Supplier/ProCo out, but I’ve also won games without either of them.