Home | About | Tournament Winning Decklists | Forums

Metaing vs runners


#1

Since I am very unsure about my corp choice these days, I’ve decided to try to choose the corp I’d like to specialize in for the Nationals tournament(s) based on the expected metagame.

In order to do that at all, I need to have some kind of representation on which corp is good vs which runner. Feel free to point me in the right direction if there was a discussion on that, and if not, feel free to write your thoughts. Which corp decks would you choose and why?

I thought summarizing these thoughts into a simple spreadsheet might be a good idea. However, I am not good enough to populate all that, so I’m asking you guys for your opinion: how does corp A fare against runner X?

I’ve made a public google spreadsheet for keeping a track of that. First point of work is to populate all the runner archetypes and all corp archetypes. Then, once in a matrix, a basic overview of the matchup can be given: 1 being very bad for corp, 3 being neutral and 5 being very good for corp. 2 and 4 in between, of course.

Of course there will be a lot of different opinions on this, so I’d like to see the average of your thoughts.

This is the file, you can edit without any google account:
link to file

Feel free to add other corps, runners and grade their rankings. It would be best if you just right click on the first sheet and clone it, give it a name and add your scores, that way I can summarize everyone’s opinion.


#2

Hb rush (corp/runner)
Prepaid Kate 50/50
Eater maxx 90/10
Reg ass maxx 40/60
The whizz 60/40
Valencia 60/40
Andy sucker 30/70
Stealth Andy 40/60
Nasir - not sure, thinks it bad.

I posted in here cuz might make sense to have a discussion about it rather than getting into an edit war


#3

You think it’s a coin flip with Kate? On a more general note, how do you come up with your numbers? Is it just by feel? I often see these kind of estimates and am curious about their accuracy.

I used to use the game tracking app, but then it didn’t update with honor and profit for over a month, so I myself have no way of tracking this.


#4

These are pretty close to my proportions, though I might give a slight edge to Whizzard over Valencia in the matchup. Also, you left Noise off the list – I’d give it 70/30 or so, but ymmv depending on the number of Archived Memories you’re packing.


#5

I do some tracking, but the caliber of opponent varies so wildly on OCTGN that that’s only of moderate usefulness anyway. It’s mostly by feel.

Re: the Kate matchup, there can be blowouts in either direction, but it often comes down to a 7-5 end with the final 2 points being determined by the “Guess what card this is in the taxing remote!” game.


#6

Any corps right is a coinflip against kate AT BEST.


#7

It’s mostly be feel. I’ve played a ton of hb vs. Kate, and it goes up and down a little depending on their exact build. Sherlock helps a ton in this matchup.

Yeah, I’d put noise at 70/30. Though I haven’t played against any Faust builds, my experience is you’re able to overscore a Vitruvius early and agressively and they have trouble stopping you from getting a campaign going.


#8

Fair enough. To me, 60-40, 50-50 and 45-55 are gonna feel pretty similar until I’ve played a LARGE amount of games - and I certainly haven’t against many runners.

On a wider note, why is ‘blue sun’ one build? And also, is ANYONE running deadcoats? I think it’s terrible at the moment.


#9

You’d probably be better off getting a list of archetypes first, then making a google form for people to fill in. Public spreadsheets tend to go bad especially with people adding categories.


#10

I know it sounds nuts but I feel like nisei div (now biotech rush) post-batty has gotten to 60% or more. Probably needs more games, but in shl you get to play against Kate so much maybe familiarity in the matchup is helping. I feel like the god tier status is on its way out…


#11

The deck I’ve had the best luck against Kate with has been IG with blacklist & IT. The whole thing just taxes the key portions. Lady is very weak if she has to deal with an Ashiguru twice because of caprice, etc. But, I haven’t given it enough reps to know about the rest of the population. And frankly, I haven’t been looking for the most competitive challengers either. @cranked has a good list out of Jinteki as well. Basically, I’m thinking you ought to be looking at which jinteki deck is best because caprice is probably your best hope of scoring out. Weyland might be better if it weren’t for the voicepad economies not caring about resource destruction. Corporate town is really really good vs Anarch as they’re almost entirely resource based at this point.

I don’t have percentages or numbers for you, but I think runners are in a similar place corps were in this time last year. Where before you had to plan for NEH & RP with a side of Blue Sun; Now you have to plan on the corp side for Anarch Good stuff and Shaper BS. Between the two it’s hard to pick techs that hurt each kind of player.


#12

How many hours does it take you to finish a game? :stuck_out_tongue:


#13

Not longer than an RP game. Requires that you know how to play it…


#14

What is Batty Archer? Deadcoats hasn’t been a real threat in a while and I haven’t seen it in many months.


#15

Off the top of my head, at least Stimshop CT, Caprice HB and a Weyland kill deck without GT bullshit belong in the list.


#16

on the reina matchups, from my experience:

Butchershop is probably a coinflip, they tend to run a lot of money and sometimes you can just pull an agenda at the wrong time and lose, also the black knight deck has huge issues with reina, as you’re all ai with shutdown chaff.

The issue with this kind of chart though is that matchups can swing greatly with 1-2 card changes. adding datasuckers into reina makes glacier matchups fantastic (yes even hb), but it doesn’t help against most flavors of nbn, as they don’t really need to rez their ice a lot of the time, so the sucker is a dead card. this happens with a lot of runner deckbuilding, a few card slots often swings the matchup a lot.


#17

I’ve been testing out huge amounts of corp decks against PPVP Kate lately. I think this is right. Butchershop is probably the closest to coin-flip you can hope for, but I don’t think it’s great and I suspect its Crim matchup is awful (but nobody plays Crim!).

There’s no way to tax Kate effectively, so any deck that relies on rushing or taxing her out of a remote is going to fail. The only thing that can work is some sort of Nisei or a kill deck. Kill decks are neutered by Plascrete pretty easily.

I’m pretty down on how the hell you put together a decent corp deck that isn’t RP right now. It’s just hard to make a meta call against Kate.


#18
  • sub-based sentry tax seems to work fine here (unlike stealth decks)
  • not all kill is meat damage
  • you have to punish the whole “occasional multiaccess for many cards” paradigm that she wants to have going on at your centrals
  • Crisium on RnD
  • remote-trolling for bonus points

#19

I’ve had my best results against Kate with ITD-RP.


#20

+1

I have decent success against Kate with my GT Blue Sun kill deck. I wouldn’t call it a coin flip, I’d say the match usually comes down to a combination of experience with the respective decks, player skill and a bit of luck, which is pretty reasonable! It taxes Kate’s breakers with Hives, Curtain Walls and Tollbooths, but importantly makes her Makers Eye runs less fruitful than usual by virtue of the deck’s low agenda density. Most Kates only run one plascrete which can be dealt with using Shattered Remains or an early scored Cleaners. As long as you’re not unlucky and get your economy up and running early to keep up with her it’s a pretty fair match up!