That’s what I said. you’re the one who said:
That’s the point I disagree with. If the corp had anything smarter to do with their remaining agendas, they didn’t even try it. my guess is the 11 points we scored were somehow all of the 3-advance agendas in his deck.
To clarify: the “finite accesses” part is due to the Runner choice entirely. The “no proactive win condition” part is due to the Corp deck choice. The stalemate as a whole is both your stupid decks fault’s equally! 
(I don’t think you can reach such a stalemate position without both decks including some accepted Achille’s Heel which happen to coincide during the game to form a impasse. So no point blaming the other person/deck/card choice!)
However, this highlights the flaw in the design of museum. Without museam an impasse is impossible, the corp is on a timer and will eventually lose. Museum isn’t overpowered and it does enable some fun new deck types, but from a game design perspective it is a disaster. Things like Levy and Trope and Jackson were designed carefully to prevent infinite recursion, I’m surprised museum didn’t include something similar.
the loop is broken once they are trashed
I’ve found that playing against asset spam, all that’s really important is having good repeatable econ–I’ve played against it with Desperado Ken Tenma, and between Desperado and maybe a Dirty Laundry+Siphon, you can just sit on their remotes hard enough that Tour Guide never becomes worthwhile (although you do still need to hunt the agendas out of centrals, because they are never getting installed). Surfer Kit worked out the same way with Magnum Opus, and I’m sure there’s other engines besides that that you can go with.
The net damage version is more difficult, I’ll admit, because now it’s the runner who’s going to run out of resources, but even then as long as you hunt out the right assets, I don’t think it’s unwinnable.
recurring a museum from archives is part of the loop, it doesn’t break it.
the loop is broken by one of the 3 ways, and should occur in 99% of games if the runner has a policy of killing DBS/Museum/Jacko on site
Which can’t happen unless you leave another Museum of History/Tech Startup unchecked and untrashed. Jackson Howard can return them at light speed but he, of course, is finite.
Personally, I focus on 2 and 3 a lot more than 1, since there are a lot more ways to keep bringing the museums back than you listed (Team Sponsorship, Allele Repression, Reuse).
Or a lot of other cards… I’m not going to list them all for you, just look at the card pool and you will see there are a lot of them, much more than you listed.
What else can put the cards back in R&D? Hades Fragment is the only one that springs to mind. There are of course options to bring stuff from Archives to hand/installed, but since we are already working on the presumption that youre trashing all the installed ones, that doesn’t really count as recursion does it? Putting them back in R&D, on the other hand, puts the back where they came from, changes the agenda density and extends the number of turns the Corp can last.
The most annoying situation is when the agenda density of R&D is low and the snare density is high (in IG, at least). Random multi-accesses end up taxing cards enough that you need to have at least one Levy to keep that up, even when they are locked to hell. Keeping up with asset econ spam is hard, so they end up being able to fire snares ad infinitum. Add in genetics pavilion and you have to spend every other turn drawing back up to non-fatal levels before running, which slows the whole thing down more.
museum decks: the worst
This thread is making me want to make decks that run archives interface…
This thread is making me want to make MoH decks with IT-Department. Stimhack forums got definitely more whiney the last months.
Often, if you use temple and museum you had 2-3 Daily Business Show. These really help you find your 14/15 ice. Even 1 daily business show will find you ice faster than no DBS and 17 ice (which is typical for glacier now-a-days).
That’s what I was trying to say earlier. If R&D seems to be a bad bet, why would you keep running it? Run HQ, run Archives. The agendas have to be somewhere, as do the Snares.
But as a general rule, if you refuse to take any notice of what the opponent is doing against any deck, you’re probably going to lose. If you refuse to ICE Archives against Noise because that wasn’t in the plan, you’re crippling yourself. If you refuse to double ICE versus Leela, you’re not being sensible. If you refuse to trash assets against IG because they’re expensive or to run Archives because it’ll hurt, it’s the same thing.
If you could build a deck and then expect to ignore your opponent’s play completely, just carrying out your predetermined plan regardless, the game wouldn’t be fun.
It hurts to have your assets destroyed by a deck that can focus on doing such, but for other decks, it’s fairly oppressive. Competitive decks that don’t run scrubber and aren’t Whizzard aren’t unaffected either, as the economy those decks can create otherwise shouldn’t necessarily be spent on trashing assets if that possibly creates a scoring window.
showerthought this morning: if MoH was had something on it like “if Museum of History is trashed while being accessed, remove it from the game,” it would still be powerful but it would be a lot less obnoxious and would require at least some token defense. Plus, thematically it’s kind of cool that if a museum is destroyed, it’s gone forever.
See, we don’t need to ban it, we just need some sort of errata. That errata is very clean and easy to work with.
Thanks! If you see Damon stone, tell him he can have this idea in exchange for an alt art dinosaurus with a picture of dinosaurus making out with the alien on tour guide.
I need it for…reasons