My humble thoughts on Quetzal, and why I don't think she will be very good(Please prove me wrong)

Netrunner General
184

Nah I would say you’re overblown the comboyness.

You can just overdraw and install the Overmind early while the ice ranks are thin and you don’t need a lot of counters. With the right cards you can play the ‘combo’ just find with 1, 2, or 3 pieces…at which point I ask you how is it any different than running a 3 breaker package? the difference is you can still get in everywhere since it’s an ai.

The key with eko, like any other combo set is to design your deck to work with the individual pieces, but get way better with all the parts.

In this case, Overmind (good on its own), e3 pretty good with quetzel anyway, ekomind the only part bad on its own, Duggars which is fine on its own and very rapidly adds the other parts, all nighter which is a whopping 0 to play, and will be amped up later, which is also good in its own right, and stimhack, and I shouldn’t have to mention how good that is with an ai on the table.

Tell me you wouldn’t be glad to have nearly any two if those tabled at any given time as quetzal. At worst ekomind first and stimhack as the first two.

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185

Those full Order & Chaos spoilers…have changed everything. At the very least, Knifed probably allows Quetz to run 0 barrier breakers by solving the stacked barrier issue. That feels so good, and allows her to function more as a “quick rig” than an “extended early game” runner, as you mention, Dragar (even though E3 replaces Corroder in the combo). If she can find MU for the big virus dump plays, it might turn out alright.

2 Likes
186

You don’t need e3. It’s just lovely to have when it shows. There aren’t huge numbers of multi-sub barriers (Blue Sun is the only one that plays them reliably) you can’t handle with D4v1d or Parasite or clicks. It’s another tool in her arsenal, I think, not a critical piece you need out.

187

So assuming you’re running 3 Knifed, Tinkering suddenly becomes a great way to get rid of some of the more problematic pieces of ICE you’ll see, even without E3—stuff like Lotus Field, Tollbooth, Grim, Taurus, Data Raven … It will be a little bit annoying influence-wise to be running 3x E3 and 2x Tinkering, but then again, there’s good card draw and economy in-faction now, so maybe that’s ok. There’s obviously also excellent recursion for both Knifed and Tinkering available in faction, in the form of Déjà Vu.

4 Likes
188

I’ve been playing a bunch of quetzal, and ended up dropping e3 and not regretting it.

5 Likes
189

Tinkering + Knifed sure does seem like a way to not care overmuch – could see Paintbrush too if it weren’t for the rigging up issue.

Still, yeah. Being able to kill Lotus Field, Tollbooth, Grim, and the like… sure seems good to me.

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190

I think the best way to use Ekomind might be to run a different console as a 3x (Grimoire, Logos maybe?), and then use the new in-faction pawnshop to drop Eko when all your pieces are in place. I’m personally leaning towards Logos as it’s low influence, will tutor your 1-of Eko or whatever, and gives you bonus handsize to carry over into the turn you drop Eko.

3 Likes
191

Depending on deck construction 3rd astrolabe might work as well.

192

Something I threw together on the bus in about 20 minutes (apologies for the lack of formatting; the internet at my current location is pretty patchy).

Colors of the Wind v0.1
Quetzal: Free Spirit

3 Knifed
3 Steelskin
3 Inject
2 Tinkering (8)
3 Sure Gamble
2 Legwork (4)
1 Lucky Find (2)
3 Dirty Laundry
2 Day Job
3 Déjà Vu

3 Prepaid Voicepad
3 Same Old Thing
1 Oracle May (1)

3 Parasite
3 Knight
2 D4v1d
3 Mimic
2 Imp

It’s entirely possible that this deck has too much econ, looking back at it. I really wanted to squeeze an Inside Job inside here somewhere, and it’s possible that it’s the better choice over Lucky Find+May. The last slot would become an Infiltration or Plascrete or something.

Admittedly I haven’t built an Anarch deck of my own since the glory days of NoiseShop, so I might be missing out on a few things. Critique and comments?

1 Like
193

Not a huge fan of Prepaid outside of Kate just because of the initial cost, but seems about as good as I’d expect Quetzal to be. Could use Datasuckers as well, though, to deal with Str 4 sentries – or E3 feedback to deal with the barriers and things that are more than one subroutine. Not necessary by itself, but with only Knight for AI breaking and Blue Sun being a big thing, well… seems like it’d be tricky to actually get through some things, like Lotus Field.

194

Oh, Blue Sun in general (and Lotus Field in particular) will always be kind of an issue, I agree. I was just throwing around the idea of a PPvP core because of all the crazy good events OnC is going to bring. Also because I’ve played Prepaid Kate for forever, but that’s besides the point.

Regarding Tinkering vs Paintbrush: I give Tinkering the slight edge in sheer oomph factor, since nobody really likes seeing their freshly-rezzed Tollbooth get stabbed in the face, but the combo is very card-intensive, and you get completely walled by big code gates and Archer if the two cards don’t come out early. And sometimes you just don’t draw any Knived and you’re stuck Parasiting Ice Walls and Enigmas while they score out from a double code gate remote.

Sure, Paintbrush is a lot more sustainable in the long run, but to me playing Paintbrush defeats the purpose of playing Quetzal in the first place: having the ability to go ‘lol wat is a rig’ and blitz through centrals from the get-go. Not to mention trashing Paintbrush from Inject is a really terrible feeling.

I will give it that it’s a much more appropriate card name to go with the deck name, though. :wink:

Actually I think Earthrise Hotel would be pretty good here. In a deck as event-heavy as this (and unlike Kate, you don’t have Clone Chips, so you’re not really that comfortable with discarding down), you want all the clickless draw power you can get so you can spend your clicks on actually doing things. Which is the reason I didn’t originally include Amped and Stimhack in the list; your hand matters too much for you to start burning it away yourself. Plus topdecking a Day Job with Hotel when you’re down on creds is going to feel so good.

…damn, this post took forever.

3 Likes
195

If you want to run without a rig just wyrm it and do ice destruction…

196

bishop, datasucker, spinal modem, personal touch, scrubbed…Wyrm up and coming son.

197

Now all your other posts make so much sense! :stuck_out_tongue:

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198

pretty mean comment. but okay man!

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199

Alright all this talk about splashing tinkering or paintbrush got me excited. So I started thinking of a way to get it to work. With the new box coming out here is something a little fun.

Taste Tester

(45 cards)
Quetzal: Free Spirit
– Event (25 cards)
3 Day Job
3 Déjà Vu
3 Forked
3 Inject
3 Knifed
1 Levy AR Lab Access
3 Spooned
3 Steelskin
3 Sure Gamble
– Hardware (7 cards)
2 e3 Feedback Implants
2 Prepaid VoicePAD
2 Spinal Modem
– Program (6 cards)
3 Eater
2 Keyhole
2 Paintbrush
– Resource (7 cards)
2 Armitage Codebusting
2 Kati Jones
3 Same Old Thing

The questions it faces
-Is it fast enough?
-Does it have enough money?
-Is voice pad the right choice?
-Will your opponent swing at you from across the table as every ice gets eaten?
-Can your opponent handle shuffling every few minutes?
-Is getting hit because they have to shuffle every few minutes worth it?

Some serious questions here! However I think with some tweaks and testing this could be a solid choice!

1 Like
200

Right away I would consider trying 3 prepaids, as you have 25 events that cost credits, so seeing a prepaid at virtually any point is going to help out a lot with your economy.

201

I started with that but was unsure if only 2 Eaters was enough.

202

I know it’s been a while since this thread’s seen any sort of action, but since I finally found a Quetzal thread I wanted to share the deck I took to store championships a few days ago; I know it’s far from perfect, but considering I had barely built/tested the deck the day before I feel like getting 3rd was a miracle in itself:

Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

Event (26)
1x Account Siphon (Core Set) ••••
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
2x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
1x Forked (Order and Chaos)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Inject (Up and Over)
1x Knifed (Order and Chaos)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) •••
3x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••• •
1x Spooned (Order and Chaos)
1x Stimhack (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x Wanton Destruction (Order and Chaos)

Hardware (6)
1x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount) ••
3x Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts)
2x Vigil (Order and Chaos)

Resource (3)
3x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (6)
2x Crypsis (Core Set)
3x Eater (Order and Chaos)
1x Mimic (Core Set)

Program (4)
1x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
3x Keyhole (True Colors)

It’s probably the fact that I played against Weyland almost 50% of the time, but I still feel like there’s real potential here. I’m just not sure where to go from here; not playing Parasites feel completely wrong and I don’t know what to replace them with right away. At the same time 1 of each silverware didn’t feel like enough at times; at the very least I probably want to add more Knives to deal with double barrier servers.

203

Last night I sat down, and tried to make Ed Kim work in a way I liked.

Couldn’t achieve yet! Everything I came up with felt like a shittier version of my Imp Recursion Shaper decks.

So I thought about the new cards, and just came up with something.

====================

quetzal - 46 cards - 14 influence

day job x 3
sure gamble x 3
liberated x 3
daily cast x 3

IHW x 3
vigil x 2

eater x 3
knight x 2
grappling hook x 3 ** ** **
cerebrus cuj0 x 2

knifed x 3
forked x 2
wanton destruction x 3
siphon x 2 **** ****
keyhole x 3

deja vu x 2
joshua b x 2
singularity x 2

====================

Basic Eater stuff I think. Keyhole is the main thing I wanna do a lot of, and I got enough hand pressure to get things done.

Cards I’m thinking you might be like “what in the what?”

-Grappling Hook, and no E3. This is a choice based around what I was scared of from playing Eater. Wraparound, which made me pick Pretzels. Swordsman, which I need a way to facecheck safely. OAI Bullshit from Blue Sun. E3 is good vs OAI, but doesn’t allow the face check. Hook on the Swordsman though is a safety net… then I know what to avoid until Cuj0. Also helps face check a lot of stuff safely, so its early pressure at the cost of late game efficiency.

-No david. With the Hooks being my answer to the common OAI’d Blue Sun ice… and Pretzel my way thru Wraparound… And eater being so good math wise… didn’t think I needed it.

-No inject. Im hoping IHW and Vigil gets me enough, but it might not. Inject or John Mas would be worked into the deck if I need more… but thats rough, since what the hell do I cut!

-The choice of Cutlery I chose. 3x Knifed so I can kill Barriers and hopefully make it so a Barrier wont lock me out of a real access. Force 2 types of ice on the remote. Forked because Cuj0 is limited, so I need to kill… main reason I chose Cuj0 over Mimic too… so I can kill no restrictions. No spooned because most Code Gates are Low sub High Str it seems now… perfect Knight targets.

-Singularity. Obvious enough, It lets Eater hit a remote. Kill San San, or trash an Agenda, or whatever.

-Josh B over the new +click things. I need 1 more click to make Wanton really good… or to click thru 2 bioroids on 1 server. Siphon is gonna tag me anyway, and I doubt I will clear… so more tags seems better than brain damage.

It all seems decent on paper, but I have no games with it so far. Any problems you foresee?

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