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Nasir Meidan doubt


#1

Hi guys.

Today I was playing against a guy in OCTGN who was playing with Nasir. It was all good until, at one point, he made a run, I rezzed a piece of Ice (the first one) and he spent his remaining money (on personal workshop) before emptying his credit pool and gaining the rez amount of my Ice. Is that legal?


#2

yes, there is a paid ability window between when you rez ice, and when he encounters it (where his ability triggers). Currently workshop is the main reason to play him over something like kate.

For next time, there’s a very handy rules thread here: Official Rules Question Thread


#3

Thanks man! Will keep it in mind for next time, I apologize.


#4

That may have been me actually, never had so many corps grab at my credit pool before! Yes it works. Here’s the thread of Nasir rules I’ve been keeping updated over at boardgame geek:

I’m going to start a Nasir rules compendium here for any interactions with his identity or cards likely to be in his deck that might raise rules questions. I’ll start with my assumptions, please point out anything you think might be incorrect.

  1. The Runner Approaches the ice
    2.1 Paid ability window
    2.2 The runner decides whether to continue the run
    2.3 Ice is Rezzed
    Paid ability window
  2. Runner Encounters Ice if Rezzed
    Nasir ID and other encounter effects trigger

This second paid ability window is a critical one for Nasir. You have a chance to spend credits after you have seen the ice but before your identity takes effect. This allows you to dump credits into things like Self-Modifying Code, Clone Chip and Personal Workshop for the correct breaker.

Bad Publicity - Works, ‘spend them as if they were in your credit pool’ means they aren’t in your credit pool.

Battering Ram, Gordian Blade, Inti and Pipeline- Works, can increase strength before you encounter ice.

Compromised Employee - Doesn’t work, credit is gained before credits are lost.

Fall Guy - Must be used before trace or access.

Femme Fatale - Works, runner chooses which encounter effect activates first. Femme can bypass the ice, bypassing Nasir’s ability or allow Nasir to activate and then bypass.

Inside Job - No option to use Nasir’s ability.

Midori with Amazon Industrial Zone - Ice rezzed in 2.1 OR 2.3 triggers Nasir’s ability

Blackguard and Snitch - Ice rezzed in 2.1 OR 2.3 triggers Nasir’s ability

Howler - The new ice will not trigger Nasir’s ability as you are not in the approach phase when it is rezzed.

Parasite - Works, you can bring out an instant Parasite with something like Clone Chip to trash Pop-up Window after it is rezzed but before you encounter it, conserving your credits.

Parasite and Ice Carver - If Ice Carver would trash the strength 1 ice with Parasite then this happens immediately before there is a chance to use Nasir’s ability.

Parasite and Datasucker - You can not use Datasucker counters until after Nasir’s ability, and any other encounter effects, have fired.

Parasite and Personal Workshop - If you wait for the Personal Workshop to install Parasite, it will not get a virus counter that turn.

Rook - Works, gain 2 extra credits

Running Interference - Doesn’t work

Social Engineering - Credits are gained but then lost if not spent immediately in the 2.3 paid ability window

Stimhack - Doesn’t work, credits are not in separate pool.

Tollbooth - Runner’s ability triggers first. Lose all, gain 8, lose 3.

Tollbooth and Femme - Lose credits gain 8, bypass with Femme, pay nothing. Or just bypass without triggering ID.

Xanadu - Works, gain 1 extra credit


#5

I’m a little confused on the interaction between Tollbooth, Femme, and Nasir, why are there two ways you can resolve the bypass?


#6

When you have multiple triggers sharing a timing window the active player’s will fire first in the order that they choose.

So Nasir, Femme and Tollbooth trigger. The runner can choose whether they want Nasir or Femme activating first, Tollbooth will always be third.


#7

This post is pretty great - you should probably pop it over into the Nasir archetype thread just to kind of have a compendium of All Things Nasir.


#8

Even better, this seems to be one of those rare times where it totally makes sense to actually merge threads, rather than split 'em :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

It is only now that I realize that you can’t datasucker a parasited tollbooth away before paying three. That is… very good to know.


#10

Compromised employee can work with nasir. You just have to dump the credit into a personal workshop or SMC before encountering the ice.


#11

Apparently, to successfully use Nasir, you’re going to have to know the timing structure really well…


#12

I think you are wrong about Bad Publicity.

It would seem quite backward to imply something was not in your credit pool by saying that it was just like being in your credit pool.

A ruling would be nice though. I sent a query to FFG a long time ago but have heard nothing.

Note that the OCTGN implementation of Nasir does not zero out your Bad Pub on encounter (at least last time I tried it anyway). That’s why I’d like to get a ruling, to make sure I’m correct before bugging DB0.


#13

I’ve gone back and forth on Bad Pub. I think it’s intended to be more like a recurring credit.

For each point of bad publicity the Corporation has, the Runner gains 1cr at the beginning of each run. The Runner may spend these credits during his run as if they were in his credit pool, but any unspent bad publicity credits return to the bank at the end of the run.

My logic is ‘spend as if in the credit pool’ means they aren’t in the credit pool. I’ll update to a ? until we hear from Lukas.


#14

i think it would be more accurate to say that Stimhack works similarly to Social Engineering. Credits may be spent after the Ice is rezzed in the 2.3 paid ability window, before being lost on encounter.


#15

Is this true? I’m thinking both Ice Carver and Nasir would trigger at the same time, so the player could choose to trigger Nasir and then Ice Carver to kill the ICE.


#16

Man I wish there was a stack in this game, I could then understand this much better.

Ice Carver doesn’t seem to trigger to me John, I think it just happens when you encounter ice. And parasite discards the ice right away. I don’t think you can order it either way.

Could be wrong though, Nasir is really new territory as far as rules are concerned for me.


#17

Runner’s turn, so they can choose the order of the triggers, I’d think. Either the strength drops and the Ice dies, or Nasir’s ability triggers and THEN the strength drops and the Ice dies.


#18

As far as I understand it, Ice Carver has a constant ability as opposed to a triggered ability, so the Ice Carver effect happens first.

Apparently this is why with Inside Job there just is no Nasir encounter effect, but with Femme you can choose whether to have the Nasir ecounter effect happen. The Inside Job is just “first ICE encountered is bypassed”, whereas Femme is “upon encounter you can blah blah”. So Femme triggers upon encounter whereas Inside Job just is.

Anyway, seems bewildering, but these are the state of the rules as I understand them! See this thread http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1182264/nasir-rules


#19

What you are saying makes logical sense, but I’ve always read ID abilities as constant abilities as well (see interesting “encountered” interactions with Kit for good examples of this), which would mean that the player can decide which effect to trigger first.


#20

Is that a Lukas ruling? Otherwise, I’m not quite willing to buy that.